Ekrem İmamoğlu reveals his biggest dream: 'Today CHP, tomorrow...'

Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality (IMM) Mayor and presidential candidate Ekrem İmamoğlu was detained in a dawn operation on the morning of March 19, just one day after the Council of Higher Education (YÖK) canceled his diploma on March 18, and was sent to Silivri Marmara Prison by a duty court on the same day.

İmamoğlu answered questions from journalist Murat Sabuncu of T24 from prison. Evaluating both his detention and President Erdoğan's attitude toward him, İmamoğlu made striking remarks.

“ERDOĞAN CANNOT CONDUCT POLITICS WITHOUT AN ENEMY”

İmamoğlu made the following statements regarding Erdoğan's political style:

"President Erdoğan cannot conduct politics without creating a rival or an enemy for himself. Today, the CHP is his target; tomorrow, it will be the DEM Party. This cycle is always the same."

Suggesting that there is political fear behind him being targeted, İmamoğlu said, "I am in prison today because Erdoğan sees that he cannot compete with me."

“I WANT TO COMPETE FOR THE PRESIDENCY”

İmamoğlu also shared his views on the Presidential Government System. Reminding that the system, which was changed at Erdoğan's initiative, grants a person a maximum of two terms as President according to the Constitution, he stated, "Under this system, Erdoğan cannot be a candidate for a third time, but I want to compete with him. Politics gains meaning through democratic competition."

Expressing that Erdoğan does not want to compete with him, İmamoğlu spoke as follows:

Let me start with your last question. I am in jail because Erdoğan does not want to compete with me; I am answering your questions in writing from the Silivri dungeon, not face-to-face, because Erdoğan is afraid of competing with me. To be brief: I would certainly like to compete with Erdoğan; in fact, I would like to retire him not because he cannot be a candidate again, but by defeating him in the elections.

However, I think Erdoğan's statement that he does not want a constitutional amendment for himself is related to the following. First of all, those around Erdoğan have already stated that they want to make Erdoğan a candidate in an election to be held in 2027. Therefore, Erdoğan has not given up on being a candidate in an early election, which he would actually time himself, and which is not really early. He is not saying 'I am quitting now,' he is saying 'I will be a candidate through an early election.'

Secondly, by saying this, he is trying to draw the CHP into a new constitutional debate without creating a climate to conduct it.

Thirdly, I think Erdoğan is trying to change the agenda he cannot control again. As you know, on one hand, the perception that 'things are not going well in the process of a Terror-Free Turkey, and there is a conflict between Erdoğan and his partner' is strengthening in the public; on the other hand, the public's interest in the IMM case and the injustices done to us does not diminish. Our nation never leaves us alone, so his effort to make us forget the coup he committed against us through the slander-filled IMM case is in vain. However, the point that catches my attention is Erdoğan's effort to brush off the call for a 'Terror-Free and Democratic Turkey' commission that should be established in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey (TBMM). As you know, I had made a very important call on this issue, and our Chairman Mr. Özgür Özel shared our goal of a 'Terror-Free and Democratic Turkey Commission' with our nation in his historic call at our İzmir rally. Mr. Devlet Bahçeli also had a valuable commission call regarding this issue, which I also attach great importance to, titled 'Strategy for a Terror-Free Turkey in the New Century; National Unity and Solidarity Commission.' Now we see that Erdoğan is trying to ignore and brush off these commission proposals that we have suggested to our nation with sensitivity and a sense of responsibility. In such a critical process, I would advise him to act with the consciousness of governing the state, not with the feeling of protecting his seat. Our nation does not forgive mistakes.

"TODAY CHP, TOMORROW... DEM PARTY"

Speaking about being arrested on the day a public vote was to be held for his presidential candidacy as the mayor of Turkey's largest city, İmamoğlu said that President Erdoğan cannot conduct politics without creating an enemy for himself.

"He who makes the CHP an enemy today can make the DEM Party an enemy again tomorrow," said İmamoğlu, adding:

Erdoğan cannot conduct politics without creating an enemy for himself. After 2016, he conducted politics by demonizing the HDP and the DEM Party; now, because he needs to, since he can no longer demonize the DEM Party, he is conducting politics by demonizing the CHP. While demonizing the CHP, he is trying to prevent our municipalities from working by calling them terrorism and corruption, and trying to appoint trustees to the CHP.

However, I would like to remind everyone of the following regarding this matter. First, the CHP is the founding party of this country, of this Republic, and according to all public opinion polls, it is the leading party. Therefore, it is not anyone's place to demonize the CHP, to turn the CHP into a party of corruption, to turn the CHP into a party of terrorism, or to try to paralyze the CHP with these. Let those who want to try, try, but let them know that whoever tries will get their comeuppance. Secondly, I would like to draw attention to this:

It is not certain who those who are accustomed to conducting politics by pointing to enemies will declare an enemy tomorrow. He who makes the CHP an enemy today can make the DEM Party an enemy again tomorrow. In fact, those who conduct politics in this way may one day even declare their partner an enemy. Erdoğan's political life is built on forming alliances, breaking alliances, and establishing hostility. Therefore, the real issue is to create a climate where politics can be conducted without enemies. For this, a duty falls on everyone, on all of us. We are working for a Turkey where political actors are not declared enemies, where the opposition is not labeled as an enemy, and where everyone is seen as national and everyone is seen as local, and we will continue to work.

Ekrem İmamoğlu's other answers are as follows:

Do you think the current process is a set of transformative steps for the solution of the Kurdish issue, or does the government have another political agenda?

When I graduated from Istanbul University Faculty of Business Administration and received my diploma, my father had handed over the management of our family company to me. From that date on, I made contacts not only in Beylikdüzü and Istanbul but all over Turkey to grow our business, and I traveled to many cities to promote the housing projects we developed. During my visits to the Southeastern Anatolia region, I had the opportunity to establish close relationships with our Kurdish citizens. Likewise, during my time as a member of the Trabzonspor Board of Directors, I visited the region many times. Kurds and Turks are honorable citizens who share the same values, who are one in sorrow and one in joy. Whenever I went to cities where Kurds are concentrated, I always felt at home. Because the people there see you that way, they make you feel that way. Maybe it will sound like a cliché, but they are people who have shared the same fate from Malazgirt to Çanakkale and have stood shoulder to shoulder for the same ideals. For this reason, I have always listened to the Kurdish issue and have taken the initiative to do my part for the resolution of this issue.

In fact, when I was the Mayor of Beylikdüzü, my first official visit outside the city was to Diyarbakır. I visited non-governmental organizations there together with the CHP organization, and organized common sense meetings for the solution of the issue.

When my IMM candidacy began, one of the important headings I used for my campaign was the "Istanbul Alliance." The Istanbul Alliance was a summary of my perspective that sees everyone living in the city as equal and honorable citizens and accepts all 16 million as patriots.

I told all these details for this reason: I have been close to Kurds and the Kurdish issue from the beginning. Moreover, my political understanding is built on the peace, prosperity, and happiness of our people. If Kurds do not feel peaceful, happy, and equal enough in Turkey, if Kurds say 'we have a problem,' the only thing we will do is find a solution to this problem. Politics conducted by denying and ignoring problems, identities, and values consists only of lies and opportunism.

I also believe with all my heart: Talking about the Kurdish issue only in the context of terrorism and dealing with it only through security policies has cost us a lot. Without neglecting the security issue and the terrorism issue, the Kurdish issue should have been handled as an issue of rights and freedoms, an issue of democracy, and an issue of enrichment, prosperity, and development as a nation. Since this was not done and the issue was squeezed into the parenthesis of terrorism, both rights and freedoms were restricted, and we sacrificed our democracy and our prosperity.

Because we look at the issue with this framework, we have supported the 'Terror-Free Turkey' process from the beginning. Before that, we were both against terrorism and in favor of accepting the existence of the Kurdish issue and solving it. For our country to be truly united, we focused on how to strengthen our unity of heart with a perspective that demands more democracy and understands each other.

Just as we supported the 'Terror-Free Turkey' process, we proposed that this process be expanded to 'Terror-Free and Democratic Turkey.' Because, just as terrorism and the Kurdish issue are among the most important issues of our country and need to be solved with the broadest consensus as soon as possible, there are important democracy issues in our country ranging from the return to the rule of law and separation of powers to unjust arrests and a judiciary that has lost its impartiality. For this reason, while talking about the steps that need to be taken for a Terror-Free Turkey, we say, 'let's talk about these too and make the necessary arrangements to eliminate these problems.' In summary, we support the 'Terror-Free Turkey' process, but we also see the government's tendency to keep this process narrow, especially in a way that will be to its own advantage, and we are trying to change this.

What the government is currently doing is prioritizing the dissolution of the organization and making things difficult when it comes to the Kurdish issue and Turkey's other problems related to democracy. It is not easy to trust those who owe their political power to the exploitation of terrorism and the authoritarian order they established under the pretext of fighting terrorism.

Although we have doubts about the intention, we do not find it appropriate to remain indifferent to the 'Terror-Free Turkey' process or to stay out of it. We are definitely trying to turn the discussion around the 'Terror-Free Turkey' process into a real political discussion and turn it into a comprehensive democracy discussion. We are trying to act together with all political parties, civil society, and citizens and make the process a process that will expand democracy.

The process that started with the operation on the CHP Esenyurt Municipality and continued with the operations that reached you on March 19, 'made some think of the existence of not just a solution or a solution intention, but a new political engineering.' How do you read this issue?

If we leave politics and conducting politics to the government and its partners, I have no doubt that things will proceed in the way you described. If it were up to them, they would throw CHP members, young people, and dissidents from all walks of life into dungeons, but at the same time, they would say they are making peace. They may want to do this. However, let us not forget that we are facing a government that has failed to solve Turkey's fundamental problems, has plunged the country into an economic crisis it has never seen in its history and cannot get out of, and has dropped our country from the democracy league to the authoritarianism league. Indeed, because of this, the political support of the People's Alliance is no longer even 40 percent. The AKP, one of the government's partner parties, is now the country's second party.

Since this is the situation, it is clear that the government will want to engage in political engineering. However, as the CHP and the opposition, or rather as the nation, we also have the power and ability to prevent this. Therefore, we know and see that the government's intention is not sincere. However, we, like our nation, do not accept this politics that is not based on sincere intention. With the responsibility of being Turkey's largest party and marching toward power, we are saying how this process should be conducted and making our warnings. Without breaking the dialogue with political actors, we are looking for ways to create new political opportunities. Instead of retreating into a politics that consists only of criticizing and exposing the government, we are trying to establish a political line that shows the nation the ways out and shows political actors new political opportunities. We will continue to say, 'We are all for a Terror-Free Turkey; are you also for a democratic and prosperous Turkey,' and continue to conduct politics with this perspective.

MHP Leader Bahçeli's commission call... What steps do you think should be taken for the commission to achieve results in a positive sense?

I find Mr. Bahçeli's invitation, which proposes to handle the Terror-Free Turkey process in the Parliament and with a broad consensus, very important, and I attach great value to it. Because we saw it this way, we immediately did what was necessary. We had made a similar call before Mr. Bahçeli made his own call. After Mr. Bahçeli's call, we expanded our call and repeated it. We announced that we are in favor of a process where all political parties, civil society, and experts contribute and which is conducted transparently, and that we will contribute if such a process occurs. Because I believe in this: We need substantial work to end the terrorism issue in a way that it will never revive again, to solve the Kurdish issue, and to resolve the fundamental issues of our democracy. We need transparent parliamentary work in which everyone participates.

We are ready to do our best for a Turkey where we place our Parliament back at the center of politics, where the agenda of politics is determined not by Beştepe and its advisors but by the representatives of the nation, and where the fate of the nation is directed by elected deputies, not by appointed advisors.

On the other hand, as I have said before, we have no intention of being a tool for the Terror-Free Turkey process to be sacrificed to personal calculations and ambitions.

Socialization of the process - what steps can be taken in terms of convincing the masses?

First of all, it is necessary to create a negotiation and trust environment where all kinds of issues, including concerns about the process, can be discussed. Legal security, transparency, and inclusivity are the mechanisms that need to be established in the first stage. We need to ensure the participation of different segments of society, and increase the participation of NGOs, experts, and women. However, as important as these, it is necessary to take steps that will convince that there can be a process. You cannot call it a process and fill prisons with your opponents, students, and journalists. If you do this, you cannot convince anyone that there can be a process.

Do you think Demirtaş will play a positive role in terms of both the continuation and socialization of the process?

We have not exchanged messages with Mr. Demirtaş. However, I have explained many times what I think about Mr. Demirtaş's situation. Mr. Demirtaş is in prison because of his political activities, because he disrupted the government's calculations. Therefore, I think he should be released. I see the importance of Demirtaş in the eyes of our Kurdish citizens, just like everyone else. If he is released, he will certainly make significant contributions to politics. On the other hand, it would not be right for me to speak on his behalf. Mr. Demirtaş will decide for himself what to do and how to do it after he gets out of prison.

I would also like to add this: Not only Mr. Demirtaş but also Mr. Özdağ needs to be released. The place for political party leaders is not prisons, but next to their voters.

City Consensus arrests continue. Ahmet Özer's first hearing was held. What message do these give you in a political sense?

Mr. Ahmet Özer became our Esenyurt candidate as a step of the Istanbul Alliance, which we developed as part of our party's Turkey Alliance politics, and we won Esenyurt again in the elections. But as you know, the prosecutors of this country accused Mr. Özer with accusations containing unbelievable expressions such as 'it is aimed for Kurds in the western provinces and districts to have a say in municipal council decisions and to take part in local governments as a result of obtaining quotas in certain numbers in municipal councils in exchange for a candidate to be agreed upon and supported, even if they cannot win the municipalities' for the Istanbul Alliance, and judges who took the empty accusations seriously also gave a prison sentence. As you know, Mr. Özer is a valuable academic whom the AKP invited and listened to many times during the previous solution process. The only reason he is in jail is that the CHP won the elections in Esenyurt by receiving the support of our Kurdish citizens. I would like to say this here: The CHP is the party of everyone, of all citizens, and it will continue to be so.

The continuation of Ahmet Özer's detention is a complete absurdity: The government, which is preparing to make legal arrangements to not put members of the terrorist organization who will return to the country in jail and to create a right to hope for Abdullah Öcalan, continues to keep a politician, a mayor, who has taught at universities for decades and has been in favor of legal political struggle throughout his life, in jail. This also weakens the belief in the current Terror-Free Turkey process. The government parties, and Erdoğan, must be seeing this too. The fact that they insist on their positions despite seeing this, of course, also creates doubt about their sincerity and determination regarding the Terror-Free Turkey process.

When you look at both the steps taken by the MHP leader in terms of the solution of the Kurdish issue and his statements centered on 'speedy trial and clear-genuine evidence' during your detention, do you think he has a direction that separates him from Erdoğan in terms of political steps-thought?

I am not in a position to know this. However, we support Mr. Bahçeli's proposal to handle the process on the ground of the Parliament and in a broad commission. We supported it before, and we support it now. If Mr. Bahçeli thinks that the Parliament should come to the fore more in the coming period, we certainly agree with this. Although I do not find what Mr. Bahçeli said about the irregularities and illegalities in the trial processes sufficient, I find it important. Turkey should not be a place where real criminals walk around freely and those who do nothing but oppose the government are thrown into prisons.

President Erdoğan called on the CHP to join hands for the making of a new Constitution. What do you think about this?

Of course, continuing with a coup constitution does not suit Turkey. Of course, we must make a civil and libertarian constitution. There is no doubt about this. But let us not forget this: The current constitution is a coup constitution, but it is a constitution that Erdoğan has changed in many places. Our current constitution is actually an Evren-Erdoğan constitution. In fact, in terms of parts such as the government system and the structure of the Council of Judges and Prosecutors (HSK), this is an Erdoğan constitution.

Indeed, these are actually at the beginning of the parts of our Constitution that need to be changed. The changes made in 2017 regarding the government system and the HSK at Erdoğan's request, far from democratizing the current coup constitution, made it even more anti-democratic; it is necessary to see this. If our Parliament is experiencing its weakest, most ineffective period in its 150-year history, it is because of these changes. If the agenda and functioning of politics are directed not by the elected but by Beştepe advisors, it is because of these changes. If the judiciary has come under Erdoğan's control, if there is no trace of the principle of the rule of law, and if local courts have stopped listening to the Constitutional Court and ECHR decisions, it is all because of these changes. What I mean is that these are at the beginning of the issues that prevent our Constitution from being democratic. On the other hand, we do not know what the government, which says 'let's make a civil constitution,' thinks about these issues, and we do not hear what it envisions regarding the relationship between the executive and the legislature, and between the executive and the judiciary.

We are of course ready to make a civil and libertarian constitution. Of course, there is a need for a libertarian and civil new constitution that will handle the government system, the structure of the HSK, the separation of powers, etc., all at once. Of course, there is a need for a constitution that limits the power of those in power and makes decision-making processes transparent. However, those in power have no intention of making such a constitution or complying with such a constitution. Those who want a libertarian and civil constitution first comply with the current constitution, and first agree to a political climate to talk about a new constitution. First, they do not throw their rival, whom they know will defeat them in the election, into jail.

You will say let's change the constitution, but you will throw anyone who opens their mouth into jail. You will say let's change the constitution, but you will not implement the decisions of the Constitutional Court. You will say let's change the constitution, but you will not fulfill the requirements of international agreements. You will say let's change the constitution, but you will throw students into jail because they used their right to protest, politicians because they used their right to oppose, your rivals because they defeated you in the election, and the CHP's Presidential Candidate into jail.

With those who do this, how, where, and on what ground will you talk about and make a civil and libertarian constitution?

⁠You had made a sentence saying, 'Being a citizen of the Republic of Turkey will be enough to be acceptable and reputable.' Should we understand this as a new definition for the removal of the Turkish-Kurdish distinction point in the Constitution?

I think that our Constitution and our law should appeal to all citizens and should only take citizenship into account. In our homeland, where our crescent-and-star flag integrates us, being a citizen of the Republic of Turkey is essential for us. We are a huge family living under the roof of one house. Equal citizenship, which registers the equal shareholding of 86 million, does not take anything away from our Turkishness or our Kurdishness. It does not devalue our identities. Our concern is to do work where our citizens will see and feel themselves free and equal. In addition to this, the amendment of the first four articles of our Constitution is already closed to discussion. Apart from this, it is extremely important that the changes to be made in our Constitution first match the demands of our nation, and then match our history, our future, and reality. Our nation's demand for equality matches our history, our future, and reality. The duty that falls to us is to work to fulfill the demand of our nation.

How do you look at the debates that the 1921 Constitution was more libertarian and the 1924 Constitution was exclusionary of Kurds?

I say let's look to the future, not the past. It would not be right to evaluate texts that emerged under the changing conditions of the time by handling them independently of those conditions. Come, let's talk and discuss what today's conditions and today's needs are. I say let's reach a great consensus by having this discussion and make a new constitution that will meet these needs. Our country has talked and discussed all these issues in the last twenty years. We know the demands of our Kurdish citizens, our Alevi citizens, and our non-Muslim citizens. In return, we also know the concerns and anxieties of our other citizens. A participatory, transparent, and strong constitutional work that considers demands and concerns together, protects the gains of our Republic, solves today's problems, and looks at the problems of the future with a visionary perspective will certainly be done in the right atmosphere and time. For this, it would be more correct for us to focus on today and the future, not the past.

While I was preparing these questions for you, news sites were giving news of a new wave of detentions. The Istanbul Chief Public Prosecutor's Office is making many accusations, including 'establishing a criminal organization,' 'extortion,' 'bribery,' and 'unlawful acquisition of personal data.' In some newspapers and channels, you are described as a 'criminal organization leader' along with your photos. How does this make you feel?

Media organizations, especially TRT, which turns the nation's halal taxes into haram and acts as a mouthpiece for this setup they carry out with lies, slander, conspiracy, and judicial pressure, are trying with all their might to multiply the slanders thrown at us. It does not matter at all; as our nation sees these futile efforts, they believe in our innocence more strongly. Others who eat the rights of the public are the 'financial legs of the coup' who burned 60 billion dollars of foreign currency from the Central Bank in a country where the nation is barely making ends meet, and who confessed that these reserves were accumulated for the coup attempt against us. You will accumulate reserves in the Central Bank by making the nation suffer, and then you will confess that you accumulated these reserves to imprison İmamoğlu. This is an unbelievable confession of a crime.

I am neither a criminal nor a criminal organization leader; these expressions used by the conspirators cannot hurt me. However, the fact that this mentality, which plans this coup and sees haram money as their right, is in power disturbs me just as it disturbs our nation. Let our nation have no doubt that we will eliminate this discomfort in the first election.

What kind of message would you like to give to the AKP and MHP base-voters through these issues?

Let me remind you of a saying that will sound familiar to our citizens who voted for the AKP in the past. 'Our hearts are one, our prayers are one, we are servants of one God; our homeland is our beautiful garden, we are the roses of the same garden.' We are the Republic of Turkey. You may have loved Erdoğan with all your good intentions, believed in him, and prayed for him to turn back from his mistake. Like you, I see with sadness that Erdoğan is no longer benefiting the country, but harming it. It is not even new; for a long time, he has been plunging our country into political, economic, and social crises. It has been a long time since we forgot the taste of peace, abundance, and being united as a nation. Know that there is another possibility, and that a happy Turkey is not impossible. Maybe some of your hands will not go to vote for us. No problem at all, but please do not support this evil mind that drags Turkey from crisis to crisis, even by risking canceling my 31-year diploma and throwing me and my friends into jail just so as not to lose his seat. Turkey is entering a new era. We will fight for your rights and your dreams. Rest assured and protect your sincere intentions and dreams that you harbor for this country, and do not spare your prayers.

When do you expect the indictment and the first hearing? When do you think you will regain your freedom?

The issue right now is not when I will regain my freedom, but the greatest damage ever done to the Supreme Turkish judiciary in our history and the price of it. With the enemy law methods applied, neither a presidential candidate nor a mayor nor an employee remains free in this country. This is not a trial; it is political hostility.

Some journalists close to the government talk about the 'possibility of you being forgotten as your detention process lengthens.' How do you evaluate this?

No one has had the power to make someone who has entered the hearts of the nation be forgotten, and they will not. They no longer know our people. These are the wishes of those who do not know this nation and have no greeting or encounter with it in daily life. Their whole purpose is this. However, they are mistaken. This nation has always known how to stand against injustices, unfairness, and political operations. I see that the nation's prayer and heart are with us, and I am very reassured. Messages come every day from everyone from seven to seventy, whose table I sat at during Ramadan, whom I met at the market, or whose path I crossed at an opening. Letters, prayers, pictures drawn by children. The messages increase with every operation. That is why I entrusted myself to this nation. Because we have a long way to go with this nation.