Retired Major General Osman Pamukoğlu warns: ‘Peace is the dream of dreamers’

Having commanded the Hakkari Mountain and Commando Brigade and led 21 of the 24 cross-border operations conducted against the terrorist organization PKK, Retired Major General Pamukoğlu evaluated the US's strategic mistakes, wars of hegemony, and the future of the world from the perspective of the "art of war" for 12punto. Furthermore, Pamukoğlu touched upon the importance of national interest for Turkey in the current atmosphere.

‘AMERICA WILL GIVE UP’

Stating that the US is following a method full of strategic errors, Pamukoğlu said, "First: America will give up. Second, America killing children, 160 children... This is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with the art of war. This is called murder. War has laws. War also has an aspect of gallantry, whatever you call it.

America's strategic mistake is this: It does not know the enemy. If you do not know the enemy, you violate the first principle that Sun Tzu stated 2400 years ago. For instance, if you notice, in the early days, the American president also made statements like 'it will end in two days, it will end in three days.' He has been saying the same thing for forty days. It is very difficult to know this. That is, someone who is well-versed in military history and the art of war, and who also has a grasp of geography or an opinion about the power of nations, can say this very easily. What do I mean? On the second day of the war, you did not know Iran. You thought you could end this and win the war by killing the political cadre in the administration one by one.

Another point is, I said these things eight years ago on a television program. That America would attack Iran. At that time, I said this: It will use its naval and air forces, it will not use ground forces, it will try to create internal turmoil, and it will try to liquidate the current administration. I also said that it would not be able to do any of these. I said it eight years ago. The result has come to this. Why? Because America cannot risk a ground operation on Iranian soil. It doesn't even have the courage. America experienced this in Vietnam. America didn't stay in Vietnam for long either, let me say that. Its main active units landed in 1967. It tucked its tail and ran in 1973. This syndrome still exists in them. That is, those who know Americans and know American generals know that this syndrome is still in them. In short, you cannot get a full and definitive result without a ground operation. You will occupy territory. You will destroy and capture a large part of its army. You will break the people's will and determination to fight. None of these happened. And they will not happen from now on. It will not be able to do it," he said.

‘THE US FAILED TO REACH ITS GOALS’

Regarding the possibility of a dissolution in US hegemony when the foreign agenda is taken into account, Pamukoğlu said, "America is still the greatest power in terms of strength right now. There is no denying this. There is no point in ignoring it either. Currently, the view that 'there are many centers' is generally widespread. No, there is one America. Two, there is China. Three, there is Russia. And right behind them is Europe, which can unite politically but cannot manage to unite militarily. There is nothing else. Therefore, there are three powers. These are ready to expand their fields and spheres of influence if they find the opportunity and means. Besides this, let's come to the Middle East. Even if this war ends in the Middle East... Which it will. War ends when the strength of both sides is eroded, when they become desperate. On the other hand, the world did not expect such resistance from Iran. It achieved the unexpected. Its lands remain. Its army remains. The US could not reach its political and military goals. Without a ground operation, you cannot force an enemy or adversary into a peace agreement, negotiation, or ceasefire. Because war is fought with rifles, shovels, and heart. This means a ground operation. If this is missing, everything you do will be in vain," he expressed.

‘THE STATE MUST CONDUCT A THREAT ASSESSMENT’

Suggesting that the government must conduct a "threat assessment," Pamukoğlu said, "We joined NATO in 1952. We sent troops to Korea to be able to join NATO. At that time, this decision was correct. Why? Because there was the Soviet Union. The Soviet was threatening us through the Balkans and the Caucasus. It even demanded Kars and Ardahan from us. The political decision is correct and appropriate. For today, one cannot live in the world without allies. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk established the Baghdad Pact and the Balkan Pact by acting from this premise. That is why. Here, the state and the government need to conduct a threat assessment. The threat may not be single. You need to evaluate this, put it in order, and after deciding what the primary threat is, you must conduct your political and military efforts accordingly," he said.

Furthermore, Pamukoğlu said, "The primary threat to Turkey is coming from the Middle East and through Syria and Iraq," and shared the assessment that "You will establish the 6th Army between Urfa and the Zagros Mountains."

As for the reason, he said, "Diamond cuts diamond. We need this right now. What were we organizing according to in the past? According to the Soviet, right? What does it mean according to the Soviet? They will come through the Caucasus. They will come through the Balkans. This was correct. Now they are no longer there. Therefore, you will redo your threat assessment. Whether you do this immediately or not, you will see what the results are," he remarked.

‘THERE IS NO POINT IN TRYING TO CURRY FAVOR WITH AMERICA AND ITS ALLIES’

On the other hand, regarding the claims of "ballistic ammunition and missiles" which, according to the Ministry of National Defense (MSB), were "determined to have been fired from Iran" and neutralized by NATO air and missile defense elements since the day the US and Israeli attacks against Iran began, Pamukoğlu said, "These are temporary. Iran is the country with which you have the longest land border. Those living there are the Persian nation. You have not faced a situation that would be a cause for war with them since the 1600s. Now they are in trouble: America and Israel. Even England and France are on the side of Israel and America when they get squeezed from time to time. There is no need to stir up something with Iran or extract a benefit from there as an opportunity or weakness. As for the missiles... Let's say Iran fired these four missiles at us as claimed. If it did, it is a big mistake. It should not do this. I do not mean that this should be neglected or ignored. But there is no point in taking Iran on or trying to curry favor with America and its allies based on this," he spoke.

‘IT DOES NOT WANT TO ENGAGE AMERICA’

Regarding the fact that while Israel is defined as an "aggressor" in the statements of Turkish officials, the US is not included in this category, Pamukoğlu explained, "Rather than exonerating the US, the government has a policy. Everyone sees this. It does not want to engage America directly. This is a kind of policy. What is policy? The path to the goal. It does not want to take America on as an opponent. It is that clear," he stated.

On the other hand, to the question "Where is Turkey's stance becoming clear?" Pamukoğlu replied, "There is no meaning to situations like Americanism, Russianism, or Chinism. I know national interest. Your economy will be strong, your army will be strong," he answered.

‘TIME WILL TELL’

Following President Erdoğan's meeting with BlackRock boss Larry Fink, he had said, "We are very pleased to see that Turkey stands out as an island of stability, as a safe harbor in the future planning of international investors."

In response, Pamukoğlu said, "This is the government's policy. Currently, the Republic of Turkey has a government. This is policy. What does this bring or take away? That is, whether it is profit or loss, time will tell. Those who created or formed this policy must have done the math and calculations for it. It is that clear. Everything is a calculation. Every country has a government. No matter what regime you are governed under. There is a central decision-making body. It has a policy. This policy can make your country very profitable or it can put it in a very harmful state. You, as the public, look at the results and make a decision," he said.

On the other hand, in addition to the view that the mission definition assigned to Turkey by NATO has changed, Pamukoğlu said, "America and Russia know that. That is, if they act on the issue of American interests or Russian interests in the Middle East requiring such and such to be done, they will have some demands from you. And you will not make decisions that will cause trouble for the Republic of Turkey in the future, while acting in accordance with your national interests. It is that clear," he said.

SO WHAT ABOUT CHINA?

The China factor had been a subject of discussion since the first day of the US and Israeli attacks against Iran. Regarding the subject, Pamukoğlu said, "Do you know the reason for America's preparations for an attack on China? To secure the rear region for the war that will be fought in the Pacific in the future. You will make the Middle East stable, fixed. The Ukraine and Iran wars are the same. It is the rear region for America. Its head is in the Pacific, its tail is in the Middle East and Eastern Europe. You have to stabilize the Russia part, the Middle East part. The essence of this is that one who feels the enemy behind them cannot fight the one in front of them. I have been saying this for years. It wants to consolidate the rear region. It is keeping Russia busy in Ukraine. It is fixing Iran, which is China's greatest support in the Middle East, here and wants to make it weak. It is that clear. Because an Asia-Pacific war is inevitable. The Third World War will be there. China is not standing idle either. Do not think that China is very innocent or anything. It is not just the Taiwan issue. It is occupying all the islands in the South China Sea. It is building military facilities on the rocks. It is not standing idle either. China wants to gain time. The first element of strategy in war is time. China is working on that. For example, why do I say it will attack Iran eight years ago? It is for this," he expressed.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO CUBA?

Regarding Trump pointing to and threatening Cuba, Pamukoğlu explained, "That is certain. He will attack there. Why will he attack? You have an institution called the United Nations, right? Is it working? It is not working. He went to Venezuela and took the man away. Who said anything? Trump is attacking everywhere as if he found the field empty. Therefore, you cannot withdraw these without making America experience a Vietnam syndrome," he stated.

‘YOU ABANDON ALL YOUR ALLIES’

In response to Trump's recent statements that the US will withdraw from NATO, Pamukoğlu commented, "He cannot leave because the alliance would be left alone. That talk is empty talk. You abandon all your allies. He is supposedly scaring them. Trump says 'I cover 70% of NATO's expenses.' Those in Europe are worried about 'what will we do with the Russians if he leaves.' In short, Trump is saying 'Put your hands in your pockets'," he interpreted.

‘PEACE IS THE DREAM OF DREAMERS’

As Pamukoğlu finished his words, he stated that only 234 years had passed without war throughout 5,000 years of history and said, "This does not change. Do you know how many years human beings have lived in peace in 5,000 years? 234 years. That is it. There is no such thing as peace. Peace is the dream of dreamers. What is the issue? You will be ready. If you have claws, that is, economic power and the war capability of your army. Scratch your own head. There are no such dreams. The cause of war is the nature of human beings. It is because they are greedy and hypocritical," he said.

Interview: Cenk BAŞBOĞAOĞLU