TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan: Peace cannot emerge from a system of sects and holdings

Communist Party of Turkey (TKP) General Secretary Kemal Okuyan answered questions from journalist Musa Özuğurlu on a live broadcast on TELE1. Okuyan spoke about the petition campaign by republican intellectuals that has been making headlines. Kemal Okuyan also shared his assessments regarding the new resolution process and international developments. 

Answering questions from journalist Musa Özuğurlu on the Sabah Pusulası program, Okuyan discussed the manifesto by republican intellectuals that has been creating a stir. Okuyan also made significant remarks regarding the new resolution process and international developments. 

“THIS MANIFESTO WAS NOT PUBLISHED TO REMOVE THE CHP FROM THE COMMISSION”

The TKP General Secretary’s statements are as follows: 

“It is already a very short text. One might object to that text, but how can you defend the opposite of it? Can they say, ‘We do not want peace and brotherhood, we are questioning the Treaty of Lausanne, we want to debate the Republic of Turkey, we do not want equality’? This is what needs to be asked of those who object. 

The content of the text was not really debated either. What was debated was: ‘The TKP did its TKP thing; if they are opposing it, they are nationalists.’ Criticism of this manifesto came from everyone. It came from the followers of Fethullah, from the palace bureaucracy, and from various wings of the AKP. It came from liberals, and from the DEM Party and the DEM-aligned left. Everyone’s accusation is different. For example, AKP circles claimed that this manifesto was invented by someone to remove the CHP from the commission. Let me say it here so they can rest easy: The TKP is not a party that takes directives from anywhere. Secondly, the TKP is not a party that sets the agenda for the CHP. In other words, we have no intention of pulling the CHP to the left or removing it from the commission. 

“WE ARE CONCERNED”

Since this process was first announced, that is, since Bahçeli’s statements, we have said that the essence of the matter should be discussed. To solve a problem, one sits at the table in the eyes of the public, without hiding behind closed doors, and negotiates. We are trying to look into the process. We are looking at developments in the Middle East and the Caucasus. We are looking at what kind of Turkey the parties that are the driving force of this process want, and we are concerned. 

“THE AKP IS MAKING MOVES ALONGSIDE ISRAEL”

No statement has been made that would satisfy the public regarding the process. A ‘Turkey without terrorism’ is not a sufficient explanation. We have numerous interviews, statements, speeches, and minutes before us regarding the process. We are trying to draw conclusions from these. We are concerned when we look at the following: This process is being carried out in conjunction with an operation by the US, the UK, and Israel aimed at a wide geography. The AKP side claims that we are making counter-moves to this. In fact, Bahçeli’s first statement was about the Israeli threat, asking, ‘Why should we leave the Kurds to Israel?’ Things don’t work that way. The AKP has always followed a pro-US, pro-NATO line, but for the last 2 years, it has been pursuing a foreign policy that is very much in harmony with the US. There is some friction with Israel, but moves are being made together with Israel. We saw this most recently in Syria, and we are seeing it in Lebanon as well. The AKP is making an effort to break the influence of Hezbollah in Lebanon. They conducted joint operations in Syria. Let’s count the actors: the US, Israel, the UK, Turkey, Qatar. This means that while they criticize each other, a process is also underway in harmony. 

“YOU CANNOT SOLVE A PUBLIC PROBLEM WITH RELIGION”

Secularism has already been thrown into the trash in Turkey. Now, what is being said? That the Ottoman Empire was good, tolerant, and that there is religious brotherhood. We are evolving into a process that we call the Turkish-Islamic-Kurdish synthesis. There is no official statement yet, but it is in the interviews, in the statements of AKP members, and in the words of DEM members. A claim is being put forward that the Kurdish issue stems from the Republic. A large part of society in Turkey is religious, but you cannot solve a public problem with religion. We will, of course, oppose this. 

“WE CANNOT THINK OF THIS PROCESS INDEPENDENTLY OF REGIONAL DESIGN”

This issue is emerging as a ‘capitalist peace’ across a wide geography. In a wide geography that includes Israel, they want to create an economic revitalization area where international monopolies can do as they please, the region is plundered, and energy resources are seized. From Israel, Lebanon, and Syria to the Caucasus. The US has become the moderator of the peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan. It has leased the line connecting Azerbaijan to Turkey for 100 years. 

This means there is a regional design. We cannot think of the process in Turkey independently of this design. Have you seen the heroes and initiators of this process talking about exploitation relations, or about poor Kurds, Arabs, and Turks? No. Now these need to be discussed. Without talking about what is happening in Syria, without talking about US and Israeli operations, and without talking about the Islamization in Turkey, what kind of solution are we going to talk about? Those who discuss these have our full respect.

WHY DOES THE TKP DEFEND THE TREATY OF LAUSANNE?

There is a political power in Turkey right now. Therefore, the first subject we need to hold accountable regarding the country is the AKP. We have listed the things that need to be discussed: What is happening in Syria, what kind of Turkey project is there, they talk about brotherhood, but what is the share of Turkey’s poor in this brotherhood? We have never been a party that says ‘if the Kurdish issue is solved, everything will be solved.’ Propositions such as ‘if the Kurdish issue is solved, there will be democratization’ or ‘if the Kurdish issue is solved, the Turkish economy will soar’ are extremely baseless. This does not mean belittling the Kurdish issue, but there is no Kurdish issue independent of other problems. They say ‘let Lausanne be discussed,’ then let them say why it should be discussed. They say, ‘Is it up to the TKP to defend Lausanne?’ Let me tell you why we defend it. This part of Lausanne might be missing, that part might be something else. It is already being criticized from many places. For example, there is a claim that Lausanne left out a significant portion of the Kurds. All of these can be discussed. But these are things that happened a century ago. The reason we defend it is not that Lausanne is perfect or anything. We are defending this: it is, in the end, an international treaty that corresponds to the founding of the Republic of Turkey. Treaties have parties. After a point, it becomes an acquis. If everyone starts saying ‘I don’t recognize this treaty’ whenever they want, like Trump or Israel, the world will turn into a bloodbath. 

“THE DEBATING OF LAUSANNE MEANS WAR ON ALL OF TURKEY’S BORDERS”

Today, the start of the debate on Lausanne means war on almost all of Turkey’s borders. The word ‘war’ comes easily to some, but war means occupation, death, and poverty. If a war breaks out, everyone will take their position, but we have an obligation to prevent imperialist wars. The issue is not the ‘legend of Lausanne’ or anything; there are certain international treaties. The meaning of Lausanne is this: it corresponds to the founding of the Republic of Turkey. There is no benefit in debating these. 

“NO PRO-AMERICAN OR PRO-ISRAELI PROJECT WILL BRING PROSPERITY TO THE PEOPLE”

Up to a certain point, independence struggles and national liberation struggles in the world had a progressive character. In Asia and later in Africa, they served a function that pushed back the imperialist system. Now, we have been living in an age of counter-revolutions for a very long time. One of the most important features of this age is that the initiative lies with imperialist countries. The process we are currently experiencing is perhaps aimed at bringing 100-year-old designs back to the agenda. This started in Yugoslavia; they tore it apart piece by piece and continued. Currently, the dominant power in the Middle East is the US. Israel is changing borders. There is no possibility that a pro-American and pro-Israeli project will bring freedom, democracy, and prosperity to any people. Including the Arabs, including the Kurds. 

“BLOODY RECKONINGS WILL EMERGE FROM A SOLUTION WHERE EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN HOUSE”

They say, ‘Isn’t the Republic of Turkey also pro-NATO, pro-American?’ We have been fighting against this for years. But does this devalue the founding of the Republic of Turkey? If the villainy called capitalism has brought the country to this state, the culprit is neither the national struggle nor the founding of the republic. Of course, capitalism did not come to Turkey from space. On the other hand, the transformations in the 1919-20-21 period are revolutionary transformations, and we defend them. Otherwise, we are not defending the torture, coups, right-wing politics, and exploitation in Turkey. We are trying to change this. We have a claim to lift this country up together with everyone living in Turkey, regardless of their ethnic origin. We are trying to do this. The other solution is a solution where everyone has their own house. Only bloody reckonings will emerge from that.”

“AS LONG AS TURKEY’S SOCIO-ECONOMIC REALITY PERSISTS, NO PROBLEM, INCLUDING THE KURDISH ISSUE, CAN BE SOLVED”

Okuyan also answered Musa Özuğurlu’s question, “Where will the process take us?” Saying, “We do not think that Turkey’s major problems can be solved within this system. We do not lean on the simplicity of ‘we will solve everything by changing this order’; the facts are clear. As long as the socio-economic reality of today’s Turkey persists, no problem can be solved, and the Kurdish issue cannot be solved either,” Okuyan made the following statements:

“We also have a claim that the AKP’s 25-year record shows it cannot solve a problem in favor of all citizens living in this country. The addressee of a problem is the political power. It is discussed with the political power, and negotiations are held. But what are we doing this for? This is the fundamental issue. 

“AN INTERNATIONAL DIMENSION WAS DELIBERATELY GIVEN EVEN TO THE KURDISH ISSUE”

There are happy Kurds, let me say that; they are part of the capitalist class in Turkey. The issue is not just the yogurt seller coming from the US; there are many, there are many rich Kurds in Turkey. But there is real poverty. There are millions of poor people in Turkey who are not Kurdish, and they are unhappy. The political actors who say ‘a Turkey without terrorism’ or ‘our brotherhood is under threat, we made mistakes in the past.’ It is too late for them, once. Because an international dimension was deliberately given to this issue in Turkey. It is not a good thing for people to start hoping for help from other countries. But they have been pushed there. 

If you do not establish an egalitarian order, you will inevitably have to divide. You cannot ensure brotherhood this way. Why did peoples live together fraternally despite all their differences in the Soviets? People were not exploiting people, and resources were transferred more to backward regions thanks to the planned economy so that those places would develop. And for a very long time, no one killed each other there. The Soviet Union collapsed, and they started strangling each other again. In other words, when you do not establish an egalitarian order, you are already oppressing some people, both to divide the working classes and to rule. If you keep an ethnic-based hostility alive, it provides you with an advantage to rule this society; you fuel nationalism. 

“THOSE WHO TORTURED IN DIYARBAKIR AND THE PRO-AMERICAN TURGUT ÖZAL ARE THE SAME”

Now there is an effort to make Turgut Özal a hero and declare him a democrat. He was also pro-American, but those who carried out the Diyarbakır tortures in Turkey were also pro-American. This is what they wanted anyway. Imperialists will want Turkey to have a Kurdish issue anyway. Now, those who say ‘let’s weave brotherhood’ are the ones who brought the Kurdish issue to this state. And they cannot get out of this by throwing the ball at the founding of the republic. Look at the language they used until just yesterday. Accusations were being made against all politicians. Now AKP circles say, ‘These people don’t want the solution to the Kurdish issue.’ Until yesterday, you were throwing anyone who said ‘Kurdish issue’ into prison. 

“NO SECURITY CAN COME FROM ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES THE US, ISRAEL, AND THE UK”

In Syria, all communities that are not Sunni Arab are facing a security problem. It was not the dominant tone, but among the Alawites in Syria, it could have been said, ‘Let Israel protect us.’ This was not possible under normal circumstances. But it became one of the dominant tones among the Druze. Security cannot come from this. No security can come from anything that involves Israel, the US, and the UK. 

“THE SAME SHOULD COME TOGETHER AND FACE OTHER SAME GROUPS”

Now the solution path we need to find is this: The same should come together and we need to face other same groups. Here, only one thing embraces the widest segment, and that is the working people, the unity of the poor. Without ensuring this, we have no chance of moving forward in our country. We will enter into endless fights. They talk about autonomy. What is autonomy? It is resource sharing. Can peace emerge from something that involves resource sharing? Is such a thing possible? We need to solve the most fundamental issue in Turkey. Because there is a 1% segment that has sat on Turkey’s resources. Instead of making the 30% fight the 70%, the 99% needs to claim the resources in the hands of the 1%. The other way is death. The other way is death in Syria. Very big fights and conflicts emerge from resource sharing on ethnic and sectarian bases. We want peace, but peace cannot emerge from there. 

“PEACE CANNOT EMERGE FROM A SYSTEM OF SECTS AND HOLDINGS”

I say very clearly: peace cannot emerge from anything that involves the US, Israel, and the capitalist class. Peace cannot emerge from a system of sects and holdings. That is why we say republic. The republic we want is an egalitarian, socialist republic. There is inequality within the tribe, within the sect. They also share a wealth, and it is the poor who follow those sects who suffer. Holdings are already built on inequality. Peace cannot emerge from a social order built on inequality; it will produce new inequalities. That is why we are insistent. They say, ‘You are enemies of the Kurds, enemies of democracy, you want the CHP to be removed from the commission.’ Let the CHP not be removed, that is their own business. They say, ‘You are against the solution.’ Fine, go ahead and form an alliance with the AKP, form an alliance with the MHP; they are in favor of a solution. We will see the state of that solution.”

RESPONSE TO CRITICISM OF THE MANIFESTO 

The TKP General Secretary responded to the criticisms regarding the petition campaign launched by republican intellectuals as follows: “There are a small number of retired soldiers among the signatories. There could have been many. We do not act with a judgment that ‘soldiers are such and such’ in advance. But Turkey is a NATO member country. Soldiers go through NATO training; we know what kind of function they have in the end. On the other hand, one does not need to be in uniform to sign certain policies. In many countries throughout history, civilians have also caused great suffering to the people. 

“THE PETITION CAMPAIGN REACHED ITS GOAL”

In the end, we put forward a text. We ensured the emergence of the text. We did not put the TKP’s name under it. If we had, we would have done something else. This text has already spread. We stopped it at one point. It attracted a lot of attention, and we stopped it there. We said the text reached its goal. In such texts, ‘who signed this, who signed that’ is not questioned much. There are 700 signatories, and there are already major disagreements among these signatories. Not everyone is at the same point. This is not a platform; we are not starting a struggle around a common program. We wanted to start a debate, and it served that purpose. While starting the debate, we also took a position. We said we have objections to these things. We also stated that we want an egalitarian order, peace, and brotherhood. Therefore, the signature binds the signatory. 

“WE WILL ACT MORE BOLDLY”

We did not write the path to the solution in this text. We are approaching it with these sensitivities. The TKP has its own approach to this issue. But at the same time, we will have some suggestions regarding this concrete process. We will not make any ethnic or sectarian, person-specific solution proposals in Turkey. We will make our proposals in a way that covers all our citizens in Turkey. We will not take any step that supports the image of Turks sitting on one side and Kurds on the other at the table. We have to be unifying. We are trying to unite the 99% against the 1%. This does not mean we do not have an approach to the Kurdish issue. We already have basic texts, but we will act more boldly. We will explain why debating Lausanne is riskier. We will explain what is happening in Syria and the Caucasus. We will explain how the background of this process works.”

“THE SYRIA OPERATION AND THE PROCESS IN TURKEY STARTED AT THE SAME TIME”

Okuyan continued his words as follows:

“Why did they want Shara or HTS to come to power in Syria? To do as they please. Because it has no legitimacy. We said this from the very beginning. The AKP government immediately embraced Shara, saying ‘he is our man,’ and the British said ‘he is our man.’ Everyone claimed him. But only Turkey said, ‘We stand behind it completely.’ No one stands behind Shara; HTS cannot dominate Syria. The MIT (National Intelligence Organization) has now turned into a public relations institution. The executive actor of this issue is also the MIT. Did the Intelligence Organization not see that Israel wanted to see HTS in Damascus to do as it pleases? How will a government that cannot see this fend off the Israeli threat? Israel has 10 bases in Syria. Were they there before HTS? No. Turkey signed off on this. These need to be debated. 

A mechanism is progressing here because the Syria operation and the process in Turkey started at the same time. There is a unity between them. Are we not going to debate this? When we try to debate it, government circles immediately say, ‘We are in control of everything.’ They say, ‘Syria’s territorial integrity.’ The issue is not just territorial integrity; it is how the Syrians live. If territorial integrity is ensured, Kurds are killed, Alawites are killed, and Druze are killed, is there such a thing? 

“THE AKP TURNED TO COOPERATION WITH THE THREAT TO FEND OFF THE THREAT”

The AKP conducted an operation in Syria together with imperialists and changed the government. This change benefited the US, the UK, and Israel. The AKP says it benefited us too. We will see this. At the same time, Turkey also took part in the siege against Iran and exerted pressure. It exerted pressure alongside the US and Israel. Sometimes you turn to cooperation with a threat to fend off that threat. The AKP government is doing this right now and is trying to take a role in the imperialist shaping of the region step by step. There is friction here, but Turkey has entered this. There is no way out of this. 

They sent a man named Barack here. He is also wrapping public opinion around his finger. He says, ‘The Ottoman Empire was beautiful.’ Our people are melting, ‘he is a friend of the Turks,’ etc. Let’s assume they are sincere in their definition of Turkish friendship. Then this is stupidity. Even if Turkey has perceived the threat, it is trying to fend off the threat by cooperating with the threat. It didn’t start with the AKP; this has been a habit of governments in Turkey since the past. The National Intelligence Academy prepared a report on the Iran-Israel War. There are very interesting things. That report writes about how strong Israel is. It writes about how absurdly Iran is acting. And it says this: ‘In this period, things are messy, one should not be left alone.’ 

Whatever happened to Turkey happened because we built our defense on NATO. Let them continue on this path. Neither brotherhood nor peace will emerge from this.”

REVOLUTION BOOK INTRODUCED 

In the final minutes of his program, journalist Musa Özuğurlu introduced Kemal Okuyan’s book titled *Revolution*, published by Yazılama Publishing.