Erdoğan's assessment of the judicial crisis: 'We have met with the President of the Court of Cassation, we will meet with the President of the Constitutional Court if necessary'

AKP Chairman and President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan answered journalists' questions on the plane while returning from Saudi Arabia, where the Extraordinary Joint Summit of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the Arab League was held.

Regarding the 3rd Criminal Chamber of the Court of Cassation's refusal to recognize the Constitutional Court's (AYM) ruling, Erdoğan stated, "I am not in a position to be a party to the dispute here, that is a separate matter. But when it comes to arbitration, the task of performing this arbitration may fall to us. That is also a duty imposed on us by the Constitution as President. Our wish, of course, is that such a tension had not occurred."

Erdoğan said, "As for the issue of meeting with the presidents of the two judicial institutions, I will meet with both if necessary. We have already met with the President of the Court of Cassation. We will also meet with the President of the Constitutional Court if necessary. There is no such thing as not meeting."

"MACRON HAS STARTED MAKING DIFFERENT STATEMENTS"

The questions asked to Erdoğan and his responses are as follows:

QUESTION: Sir, my first question will be about the final declaration issued from this meeting. Until now, we have been reading and seeing the final declarations of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. They were limited to condemnation, and we did not see a constructive, guiding, or action-oriented approach beyond that. For the first time, the final declaration from this meeting was very impressive. I liked it very much. I mean, every sentence I read was very important, and the proposals put forward were also important. For example, it says, “The displacement or exile of Palestinians is our red line; we consider this a war crime.” It calls on all countries to stop the export of arms and ammunition to Israel. It is also a declaration that explains one by one what can be done in the international arena. What was Turkey's stance and attitude in the emergence of this declaration? Did other countries easily agree to all the articles in this declaration? Or was there a persuasion process? What kind of process ensured the emergence of this declaration?

First of all, we came to Riyadh to voice a common stance and produce common solutions against the massacre taking place in Palestine. My Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan was also here a day before, and they held a meeting there with the Foreign Ministers of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the Arab League. In these meetings, they drew the entire framework of the final declaration. Yes, it is a tradition of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation to generally condemn. States do not take much action for various reasons. But since the last Extraordinary Executive Committee Meeting, our mind was clear about what needed to be done, and we requested that the latest developments be added to the final declaration in detail, and we had it accepted. Countries had preparations for the final declaration. In the meetings we held, everyone reviewed these texts again. Almost all the proposals regarding implementation came from us. Thus, it was ensured that all the issues we planned before going to the summit were included in the final text. There is a text here that contains many action points, has never been said before, defines settlers as terrorists, and even produces geostrategy.

For the first time, based on Israel's nuclear weapons, we are proposing a “Conference on Denuclearization” in the region. In other words, the event has both a tactical part and a strategic part. The two were well connected to each other. Especially regarding how aid will be delivered, it went even further; for example, an expression like “breaking the blockade” was included. Going beyond diplomatic definition, an action-oriented definition was brought. Member countries first said to us, “Why are we writing these if some of them are not going to be done?” We always said, “The discourse must emerge so that action can follow. If there is a country that wants to do something, this text must be a reference point. More importantly, let the West see that the distance between them and us is widening because of Palestine, and this is an indication of that. They accepted these heavy articles based on these arguments. I always say, there is an Iranian proverb that says, “They sat, they talked, they dispersed.” Now, this declaration is not a declaration formed on a ground where people sat, talked, and dispersed. On the contrary, there are headings that need to be put into action. Especially regarding those occupying settlers, declaring them as terrorists is very, very important. And of course, that move to break the blockade is of great importance here. The issue of denuclearization is also very, very important, and it exposes both Israel and those behind Israel to some extent. For example, Macron has started making different statements now. But you went and visited right from the beginning and appeared to be in the mood to provide all kinds of support. But this time, by saying that the scale of the deaths and the massacre here is very, very advanced, he also got into the mood of developing an action policy against it. Now, it is of great importance that the Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the Arab League have come together to take this step, because for the first time in the history of the two organizations, such a meeting has taken place.

"RELATIONS WITH EGYPT ARE QUITE GOOD"

QUESTION: Mr. President, you gave very important messages again after your return from Uzbekistan. Even after the Riyadh summit, you stated, “We will continue our telephone diplomacy with my colleagues, and we will initiate many studies to increase the number of those who defend rights and justice at the United Nations.” The summit is over. You touched upon it a little bit earlier, but what will be Turkey's roadmap for ensuring peace from now on? We are curious about this.

Currently, the 121 countries that stood by Palestine in the voting at the United Nations are important to us. Here, there are 40 countries with known abstentions and 14 votes against. The United States leads those who are against. However, we focused on the issue of “how many more can we add to these 121 countries from the 40 abstaining countries?” A telephone diplomacy or a meeting with them may be in question. For example, we met with Indonesia this evening, but there is already no problem with Indonesia. For example, Hungary is among the abstaining countries. If we meet with them, despite their negative behavior, can we win them over? Also, are there any among the abstainers that we can win over or not? We are in search of this; I want us to review it. I want us to start this telephone diplomacy after the Riyadh summit. We will hopefully start this intensively. In addition, Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi is coming to us on the 28th. So, if we can ensure these, they will of course produce a much different voice, hopefully. There is no attrition in the Turkic States; there was no problem there. In the Russia-Ukraine issue, we can talk to those who stood by Ukraine and are abstaining today and say, “Look, you took a stand by Ukraine there, now thousands of people are being killed in Palestine, you cannot remain silent here either. We did not discriminate between Ukraine and Russia, and we provided grain transport to all of Africa and Europe. Now speak up.” And of course, I don't think we will have any serious attrition from African countries when we take these steps. Because the view of African countries towards us is much better. Moreover, relations with Egypt are quite good. I believe that Qatar's involvement will also significantly ensure that African countries support this process.

On November 15, my wife has a meeting with the spouses of leaders. I don't know how many spouses of leaders will come. Negotiations are currently ongoing. After that, we have a visit to Germany on November 17. In this visit to Germany, we will of course have some messages for the West. Or, since Germany is the strongest country in Europe, it will of course be a voice for Europe from there. But on November 21, we will hopefully have a visit to Algeria. I attach great importance to the Algeria visit. Because among these countries, Algeria is a country that can always clearly state its stance. It is a country with a wide sphere of influence in Africa. Therefore, I attach great importance to this meeting with Mr. Tebboune. Hopefully, we will continue this calendar successfully.

"I VIEW HAMAS AS A POLITICAL PARTY"

QUESTION: As you mentioned, you have a visit to Germany. Before this visit, the European Commission announced its 2023 report. There was a section specifically about Hamas in this report. Because the European Union expresses that it is very seriously disturbed by Turkey's statements regarding Hamas during this process. Is the European Union trying to insert the Hamas issue into the Turkey-European Union relations equation? How do you evaluate the reflection of this in the latest commission report? Also, they do not mention at all what was done before October 7 and after October 7. They only talk about the attack on Israel on October 7. How do you evaluate this attitude of theirs?

Unfortunately, the European Union's view of Turkey is negative in every issue. We see that negativity here as well. We, as Turkey, will definitely not fall into this trap of the European Union, we cannot. Has the European Union been able to see human dignity in Israel's massacre, has it respected it? We need to ask these to the European Union in reverse. Unfortunately, I have not seen any member of the European Union that has been able to take a stance so far. They are just starting to emerge now. Like the latest statements made by Macron. But what kind of stance are the German President and Chancellor in? We will see this much more clearly during the Germany visit. But there is no clarity in them yet either.

According to Europe, it is very important who tramples on international law. As of now, the approach in the European Union unfortunately does not overlap with our approach. However, I think the Germany visit will expose many things. Regarding Hamas, the European Union thinks exactly like Israel. But we did not think like them, we do not think, we cannot think. Because I view Hamas as a political party that won the elections in Palestine. I do not look at it with their perspective. Now there is a Hamas that won the election there, so it is a political party, that's how it is viewed. Now they want to bring us to a place where they want us to say “Hamas is a terrorist organization.” No, my friend, it is not a terrorist organization. On the contrary, they are people who are fighting to protect their lands, defending, and fighting for their homeland. The difference in perspective between us is that much. Let me say this, I said it yesterday too. The Charlie Hebdo incident. What happened there, all world leaders, presidents, prime ministers walked in Paris. There were also leaders of Muslim countries among them. Today, when you bring together children, women, and the elderly in Gaza, the number of those who died has reached 13 thousand now. Such a picture is before us. But are world leaders making any sound at all in these events in Palestine, especially? Are they standing up and attacking Israel? No. Why? Friends, we must identify this now. The blood flowing here, those who died, the martyrs, these are Muslims. But those who died there were French or others, but above all, those who died there were also human beings. So, when we evaluated that, we evaluated it by looking at it from the perspective of being human. But why don't world leaders look at the event here by saying “so many people died”? There are little ones, children among them! There are children. You see, the father has wrapped him in a white shroud, the mother has taken him in her arms, kissing him on one side, and on the other side, she is taking her child to the grave. They have lined them up in rows. We saw these. We saw the mothers, we saw those who tried to take their child's corpse to the grave by smelling and kissing it. Don't these hurt your conscience? Is there no share for you from these? No. Because they are devoid of conscience. That is why we are experiencing a great tragedy, a great drama here. It is impossible to remain silent, to remain with hands tied in the face of this drama, this tragedy. We will work hard, we will make an effort, and perhaps this event may lead to other developments. I told my friends this evening, after my meeting with Sisi, now I think another door will open for us. With the Egypt visit and this step, what can we do in the region? Hopefully, we will take this step to talk and discuss these on the spot.

"AMERICA NEEDS TO INCREASE THE PRESSURE"

QUESTION: In your speech there at the Great Palestine Rally, you warned Israel not to turn the situation into a war of crescent and cross over the attacks on Gaza. This warning of yours was closely followed by Western media outlets and took its place on the agenda. In such a critical period, you also met with Iranian President Raisi in Uzbekistan for the 16th Summit of the Economic Cooperation Organization. You had important emphases in that meeting. You emphasized that the Islamic world should take a common stance and increase the pressure on Israel. We have just learned from you that Raisi will come here on the 28th. Therefore, in this context, can joint steps be taken with Iran regarding Gaza?

There is no reason for them not to be taken. The whole issue is, while taking these joint steps, let us take steps such that, if you will forgive me, it should not be half-hearted. Let us take result-oriented steps, and while taking these steps, let us be away from emotionality, mobilize international diplomacy, and while doing all this, let us be able to give messages here to both the Iranian people and the Turkish people. If we can achieve this, this would of course be very, very appropriate. Currently, the citizens in Palestine, in Gaza, have serious needs in kind and in cash. As it was said a moment ago. There is thirst here. How do we solve the fuel shortage here? Generators are not working in hospitals, there is such a situation. The most important country that needs to be activated is, as you know, America, which has influence over Israel. Now my Foreign Minister is going to his counterpart to pressure America. We will say the same thing to Biden as well. Of course, the involvement of Iran in the meeting with Biden is not in question. However, we will convey these to them in the meeting with Biden, we will say them, and along with all these, we must express this. Gaza is the land of the Palestinian people. America must accept this. If Biden has an approach that says, “No, this is not the land of the Palestinian people, but the land of these occupying settlers or Israel,” then it is already impossible for us to agree. Now they have dragged them from north to south. Return to the north is unfortunately not in question as of now, and there is a serious problem. We must pave the way for this as well. We must put America under pressure by holding meetings with Egypt on one hand and with the Gulf countries on the other. By putting America under pressure, America needs to increase its pressure on Israel. The West needs to increase its pressure on Israel. With whichever Western country the Gulf countries are in a relationship, they need to increase their influence on Israel through the pressure they will exert there.

Ensuring a ceasefire is of vital importance to us. Our work will not end with ensuring a ceasefire; on the contrary, it will intensify even more. The solidarity of regional countries will be very important to reach our brothers in Gaza and heal their wounds. From rebuilding Gaza's infrastructure to what needs to be done to restart life in the settlements that have turned into rubble, there are things to be done. We are ready to discuss and take action on every step to be taken with Iran or other states to stop the flowing blood and end civilian deaths. On the other hand, this war will not turn into a crescent-crusade war. Because this war has become a war between good and evil, lies and truth, the oppressed and the oppressor, right and wrong. Ultimately, I believe that the good, those who take their place by the side of truth, the oppressed, and the defenders of rights, that is, the Palestinians and all the oppressed, will win.

"WE WILL DO MAN-TO-MAN MARKING, ZONE MARKING"

QUESTION: Since October 7, can we evaluate the stance you have displayed on behalf of humanity and global conscience as a second “One minute”? What do you think will happen and change in the Middle East from now on? Also, you mentioned today, you met with Sisi on the sidelines of the summit. Actually, you explained it a little bit, but can you share the details of your meeting? Did you discuss a concrete plan with Sisi regarding the Rafah Border Gate, the wounded, the transfer of cancer patients, and humanitarian aid?

You know, there was the issue of children being killed by Israel at that time in Davos. It was formed with sincerity and had become the conscience of humanity, and I said after that, this is my last visit to Davos. I said I will not go to Davos again. I closed that door. That person has already disappeared from the scene anyway, he is gone. But God gave life, this person is here... Now, in fact, every sentence we establish, every step we take is to fulfill our duty to humanity. It is impossible for us to ignore what is happening in Palestine, to ignore their screams and turn our backs. If we were not voicing this call of conscience then in Davos, and now in various parts of the world, this attitude would mean denying ourselves. Israel has lost the support of international public opinion with its latest Gaza attacks. Even if country administrations enter a race to embrace the Israeli administration in line with their imperialist interests, Israel is now a baby-killer country in the eyes of societies. There are issues we need to pay attention to in the steps we take in the process from now on. Definitely, one should not eat one's words. Because here, just as we made a call of conscience then, today we are making a call of conscience in the same way. We are appealing to consciences. I suppose not all of these people are devoid of conscience. If they were all devoid of conscience, 121 countries would not think like us in the United Nations General Assembly here. I even felt the abstainers almost by our side. So what will we do? We will continue our marking. We will do man-to-man marking, zone marking. Because there are seeds of discord sown years ago in these lands. We need to clean these seeds of discord. Can we do this? I believe we will, and this power, this quality, this capacity exists in other countries in the region as well. However, there is anxiety in all of them, and this anxiety must disappear. We must make them say, “If Turkey thinks this way, we can also take this step in the same way.”

There is only one antidote to the conflicts, wars, disputes, and tensions in our region: unity. If we become one, become great, and stay alive, the fires in our region will go out one by one. This geography, which has turned into a place of fire, will become a rose garden, a sun of civilization as it was in the past. If we accept all our differences as wealth and put them aside and bring our commonalities to the fore, believe me, we will see that all our problems have started to enter the path of solution. Our region must get rid of countries that want to gain power here by coming from tens of thousands of kilometers away as soon as possible.

"WE WILL ALSO MEET WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT IF NECESSARY"

QUESTION: Sir, my question is about the discussions regarding the judiciary that have been going on in Turkey for the last few days. You said that you could play a referee role and that you could meet with both sides. You emphasized that the problems regarding the high judiciary could be solved on a constitutional and legal basis. Now, assuming that the Constitutional work will take time, I ask: Could a legal regulation be made regarding individual applications in order to prevent jurisdictional conflicts quickly? Will you meet with the presidents of the judicial institutions?

I mean, going for a legal regulation regarding individual applications is not a difficult event. Everything depends on the decision the People's Alliance will make, the step it will take. But the work does not end after handling the individual application. Where will the door that this individual application relies on be after this? It will be the Constitutional Court again. First, the Constitutional Court needs to be ready for this. Because many legal regulations go to the Constitutional Court. They are turned upside down in the Constitutional Court. Here, the parliament makes such a decision, but if this decision is turned upside down by the Constitutional Court, this will be of no use other than a waste of time. Therefore, the parliament is currently continuing its plan and budget work, as you know. But regarding individual applications, they enacted it by saying that it would speed up the work of the Constitutional Court in time. I learned something now. I said, how many individual applications are there? The answer is 130 thousand. It means that the goal of speeding up the work of the Constitutional Court has unfortunately not been achieved.

It is necessary to dwell on these, not to act imaginatively, and of course, the statement made by the President of the Court of Cassation at the very end, this is also meaningful. In our previous trip, I used an expression. I said that the members of the Court of Cassation consist only of lawyers. But among the members of the Constitutional Court, there are lawyers, and besides them, there are governors, there are economists, there are sociologists, etc., and it should be like this anyway. But in terms of its mission, where is the weight? It is in the Court of Cassation. From the Constitution to Commercial Law, to Labor Law, everything is in the Court of Cassation. I am not in a position to be a party to the dispute here, that is a separate matter. But when it comes to arbitration, the task of performing this arbitration may fall to us. That is also a duty imposed on us by the Constitution as President. Our wish, of course, is that such a tension had not occurred. As for the issue of meeting with the presidents of the two judicial institutions, I will meet with both if necessary. We have already met with the President of the Court of Cassation. We will also meet with the President of the Constitutional Court if necessary. There is no such thing as not meeting.