Dr. Naim Babüroğlu explains, saying 'Turkey is committing suicide': 'Israel could use refugees and migrants'

The guest on the program '12'den' with veteran journalist Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu was 12punto columnist and expert in International Relations and Strategy, Dr. Naim Babüroğlu. Babüroğlu discussed Turkey's foreign policy, whether Israel would attack Turkey, the issue of refugees, and the BOP project alongside the Sèvres map that has been placed before Turkey for 100 years.

He responded to Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu's question, "Will Israel attack Turkey? Will it not? The debate has begun and continues this way. This issue will also be brought to the agenda in Parliament. How do you evaluate this? Will Israel attack Turkey?" as follows:

'BACK IT UP'

"I mean, whether it's me, you, or others... Those who make assessments, those who comment, those who work in foreign policy, those who are experts in international relations, they voice this, provide the infrastructure, and present the documentation.  One can make an assessment and say: 'Israel is a primary threat to Turkey, and Israel has its eyes on Turkish land.' They say this and back it up. 

DID THEY NOT SEE THAT ISRAEL'S PATH WOULD BE CLEARED?

But when a cadre governing the country, a political authority—that is, the President—says this, the following should have happened: When the US came from 10,000 kilometers away in 2011 and tore Syria apart, Turkey should not have cooperated with the US. Why? What happened when it cooperated with the US? It supported the opposition, stood against the Damascus administration, and ultimately, what was the US's goal? To tear Syria apart.

At that time, Turkey—well, a state is a state that has the ability to see a 5-10 year projection. I mean, the political authority is elected. No matter which government it is, no matter which political spectrum, whether right or left, it doesn't matter. They are elected, they might not know the subject. But the bureaucracy—what we call the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the General Staff, the Ministry of Interior, similar institutions, intelligence agencies—the documents they prepare, and the documents countries publish that we call the Red Book or the White Book, are not published for just one year. They are not published for one year. First priority threat, second priority threat, third priority threat. What are they prepared according to? We need this many tanks, this many planes, this many soldiers. And the budget is allocated accordingly. Based on what? Not vaguely, not out of the blue; it is allocated according to threat assessment.

Yes, now if the President has identified Israel as a threat, then the question is this: Was it not evident in the published 'Red Book' or classified documents that the path for Israel would be cleared? We cooperated with Syria in 2011. Why did we not oppose the US when Iraq was invaded in 2003? Why did we not form an alliance with Iraq? Or Libya. What was the end result of the 2011 Arab Spring?

THE PATH FOR ISRAEL WAS CLEARED

When Syria and Libya were being torn apart, why did we assist NATO in Libya? Regarding the overthrow of Gaddafi. Do you know why I am saying this? Because these countries—Saddam's Iraq, Gaddafi's Libya, and the Assad family's Syria—were the Arab nations that showed the most fierce resistance and opposition to Israel's policies. They were blocking Israel's path. Yes, they also held weight in the Arab world. What happened when all three were eliminated? Naturally, the path for Israel was cleared, and Palestine was destroyed. Back then. So, when the path for Israel was cleared and Palestine was destroyed, especially with the winds of this so-called Arab Spring, if Turkey, a NATO member, had been considering its own national interests and national security, and if Israel was truly going to be a threat to Turkey in 2024, did we—a country with a deep-rooted Turkish army with a 2,235-year history, an Anatolia, a Turkish tradition—not foresee this?

'DID NETANYAHU HAVE A DREAM ONE NIGHT AND SAY 'I WILL ATTACK TURKEY''

And it cleared the way for Israel. In other words, it facilitated Israel's policies at a certain point. Why? Israel is currently playing a one-sided game. They say, 'Sir, Palestine is being destroyed, Gaza and Hamas...' No, sir, Palestine was already destroyed by the US and Israel when the so-called Arab Spring—which was actually a bloody autumn—tore apart Syria and Libya. It's not happening now. You say it's happening in the Arab world, but now they are just nailing the coffin shut. While the nails are being driven into the coffin, we say, 'We are crying, the nails are being driven into the coffin.' That's fine, but where were these countries in 2011? I am not just saying this for Turkey; I am saying it for all 22 Arab countries and 57 Islamic countries. But because Turkey is voicing this, I have to ask.

Another point: if Israel is truly a threat to Turkey, at this stage, did Netanyahu have a dream one night, wake up in 2024, and say, 'I am going to attack Turkey'?

PROMISED LANDS

That is not it. The strategic documents that emerge in the 'Red Book,' 'White Book,' or highly classified documents of these countries still exist. If Turkey knows this, then based on the 'Promised Lands'—which is true, they are carving out a geography from Anatolia. Which geography? Hatay, Kahramanmaraş, Sivas, Erzincan, Erzurum, Kars, and the south; that is correct. It is promised. But this is not a new project. It existed even before Israel. So, according to this project, if Turkey is considering its national security and national interests—and what is the primary duty of the political authority? What is the primary duty of politics, what is the purpose of politics? Why does one engage in politics? Why do the political power, the Republican People's Party, and other political parties engage in politics? Politics is conducted to increase the welfare and happiness of the society it governs. Politics is not conducted to make that society shed tears, suffer, or struggle with economic crises.

'THE STEP TAKEN BY THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT BE CONTRARY TO NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS'

The purpose of politics is to increase the welfare and happiness of all people living in a country, regardless of their ethnicity, sect, or faith. Furthermore, politics determines the important paths to achieve success. But these paths establish a strategy, right? Yes. These paths observe national interests and follow that direction. It cannot go beyond that; in other words, it cannot go beyond national interests. Second, it cannot go beyond national security. That is to say, any step taken by a government or a political power cannot be contrary to national security and national interests, either domestically or internationally.

THE 'POPE STAMP' AND THE PKK'S SO-CALLED MAP ARE THE SAME

Starting from this question, if Israel is truly a threat to us due to the 'Promised Land' doctrine, the Promised Land separates the geography I just listed from Turkey. I will come to this in a moment; the Greater Middle East Project is the same. It includes Hatay, Kahramanmaraş, Erzincan, Erzurum, Kars, and the south. Hold on tight: the map used by the Barzani administration in the 2017 referendum and the stamp that the Iraqi Kurdistan Regional Government issued in honor, tribute, and memory of the Pope's visit in 2021—we call this the 'Pope stamp'—features this map on the Pope's hat. It includes Hatay, Kahramanmaraş, Sivas, Erzincan, Erzurum, Kars, and the south. A so-called Kurdistan. Hold on tight: the BOP map and the map of the PKK separatist terrorist organization are also this; they are the same.

'THE MAP IN THE TREATY OF SÈVRES IS ALSO THE SAME'

So, the Greater Middle East Project, the Promised Land, the PKK separatist terrorist organization, the Barzani administration, and—hold on tight—the map in the Treaty of Sèvres, which the Great Hero Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his comrades-in-arms threw into the trash on August 10, 1920, and which was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne that established the Republic of Turkey, are all the same; they overlap.

Babüroğlu also criticized the changing demographic structure in the region while drawing attention to the refugees and illegal migrants settled in southern Turkey.

Babüroğlu continued his comments as follows:

'IT IS A HUGE MISTAKE TO SETTLE REFUGEES IN THAT REGION WHILE THIS MAP EXISTS' 

Fine, this map exists, its history is clear. But with this map in existence, as the political authority governing the Republic of Turkey, would I settle refugees and migrants in that region in high numbers? I would not. Why? If Israel were to become a threat, there could be many MOSSAD agents among these refugees and migrants, there could be CIA operatives, or British MI6 agents. Intelligence operatives from Arab countries that have designs on Turkey, or from other nations that resent Turkey and want to destabilize it, could be present there in high numbers. Is it possible? It is. Well, the Syrian population in Kilis is almost equal to the Turkish population. The demographic structure has changed. In Antakya and Hatay, the Syrian population of Reyhanlı is equal to the Turkish population. The refugee population in Hatay is dense. The refugee population in Gaziantep is dense.

THERE IS NO SUCH EXAMPLE IN THE WORLD 

In that case, why would I host refugees and migrants in high numbers in a place seen as the 'Promised Land,' in a geography viewed as the Greater Middle East Project, in a Sèvres map seen as the target of the PKK terrorist organization, or in the Sèvres map of the Barzani administration? There is no such example in 5,000 years of recorded history in the world.

TURKEY IS COMMITTING SUICIDE!

There cannot be such an example in 5,000 years of recorded history. Why? You have to look out for national security. In a phrase, Turkey is committing suicide! If you ask me, 'Do countries commit suicide?' I didn't know countries could commit suicide. But now, seeing these policies of Turkey, I say, 'Turkey is committing suicide.' Do people commit suicide? They do. But does a country commit suicide? I suppose when history is written in the future, they will say that there was one country that committed suicide in 5,000 years of recorded history. And that is Turkey!

'THIS IS WHY THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE COLLAPSED'

Now, let's say you cannot pay your debts; you are married, you have credit debt, you cannot pay it, you have a credit card, you cannot pay it. Your assets and property are seized. You cannot live a happy life with your spouse. You cannot live a happy life with your child. What happens? Conflict and fighting begin, and depression... Depression begins, and then suicides... Some people commit suicide. That is the situation. Do you know what economic collapse leads to? It leads to the collapse of ethical values. Do you know what it is? If you ask me what the current situation in Turkey is—one thing leads to another—let me explain it to you sociologically.

There is 'Why Nations Fail' by Daron Acemoğlu and several other books. And the famous Lebanese author Amin Maalouf... When you examine all his books, his entire body of work, when you examine the collapse processes of the Ottoman Empire and the 16 Turkish states, what happened to Afghanistan, what happened to Pakistan, what happened to Lebanon... When you look at it all as a whole from above, the conclusion you reach is this: If corruption becomes widespread in a country, first the value of honest people is reduced to zero. After that, disrespect becomes politeness, shamelessness becomes bravery, ignorance replaces wisdom, and meritocracy collapses completely. And that means the sun is setting there. That is the situation. Now, Turkey is experiencing this. This is why Lebanon collapsed. This is why the Ottoman Empire collapsed. This is why Pakistan never sees better days. This is why Afghanistan collapsed. Recent history...

TURKEY IS EXPERIENCING 'IT'

The Ottoman Empire, the 620-year-old Ottoman Empire... The great Ottoman Empire, it ruled over 5 million square kilometers. In the 1630s, that is... Suleiman the Magnificent, Selim I, Mehmed the Conqueror, the great Ottoman Empire ruling over 5 million square kilometers. In 1631, Murad IV becomes Sultan. Murad IV is an intelligent sultan, he is young. He bans alcohol, as you know. But he himself died from alcohol. Yes, after banning alcohol, he sees that the Ottoman Empire can no longer collect spoils, can no longer conduct conquests. Then there is a famous thinker in Istanbul: Koçi Bey. He calls Koçi Bey, and they are on good terms. Koçi Bey also loves and respects him. Therefore, Koçi Bey prepares a book of advice. The Sultan calls him, Sultan Murad IV says: "Koçi Bey, why did the Ottoman State stagnate? Why can we no longer conduct conquests, why can we no longer collect spoils? Prepare a report for me."

And he brings it. He prepares a report of 30-40 pages. We call this the "Koçi Bey Risalesi" (Treatise of Koçi Bey) in history. Later, he gave a similar report to Ibrahim after Murad IV. In summary, it is this: Nepotism, corruption, the collapse of the merit system... The Ottoman Empire in 1631... Because the Ottoman Empire could not fix this, could not solve it... Nepotism, corruption, and the merit system... When Mustafa Kemal Pasha started the national struggle, the occupying armies had invaded Anatolia. Do you know how many square kilometers were left? 150 thousand square kilometers. From 5 million square kilometers to 150 thousand square kilometers.

In the Balkan Wars, that army caused the Balkan tragedy for the Turkish nation. It lost the Balkan geography, which it had ruled for 400-500 years, in 4-5 weeks. Not because it lacked soldiers, but because the army got involved in politics and religious sects. Do you know that it surrendered Thessaloniki, Monastir, and Skopje without firing a single shot? It had soldiers, but because it got involved in the politics and religious sect system, and turned towards this system instead of the art of soldiering. The army and the state... When Mustafa Kemal Pasha started the national struggle and established the Parliament in Ankara, there was an area of 150 thousand square kilometers that had not been occupied. So, why the drop from 5 million? Nepotism, corruption, and the collapse of the merit system. Now Turkey is experiencing that.

'MAJOR NOEL'S MAP IS THE SAME'

Therefore, if these lands are the target of the PKK separatist terrorist organization, the target of the Barzani administration, and if it overlaps with Sèvres, hold on tight... In 1919, when Mustafa Kemal Atatürk began his national struggle journey at the Sivas Congress, the Governor of Elazig, Ali Galip, and British intelligence Major Noel tried to raid the congress. But the people of Sivas forced intelligence Major Noel to leave Anatolia. They were planning an assassination of Atatürk. An assassination of Mustafa Kemal... Do you know what the map drawn by the same Noel, Major Noel, is? He sends it to London in 1919. It is the exact same map I listed a moment ago. That is its root. Now we know this map, there are historical facts, there are documents. And we are stationing the refugees and migrants in the region where they are most concentrated.

IRAQ VISA

Turkey says, 'Israel is a huge threat, Israel has its eyes on our homeland.' But because it is so comfortable, do you know what it is doing to this region? On September 1, 2024, Turkey made an agreement with Iraq and said to Iraq: Iraqi citizens under the age of 15 and over the age of 50 can enter Turkey without a visa. Iraq's population is 46 million. The population under 15 and over 50 is this much. Do you know what this means? If 10% of them take advantage of this, that makes 2.3 million. How many of them are illiterate? 46% are illiterate. How many are unemployed? All of them. Well, are they going to stay in a hotel like a Swedish or Swiss citizen and spend foreign currency? No. Will they contribute to the economy? No. They are already hungry, already poor. And the average education level in all of Iraq is 3 years.  46% are illiterate.

So what contribution will they make when they come to Turkey? There is no contribution. What will happen? Send population into the promised lands. In line with the goal I mentioned within the Greater Middle East Project. Well, a Turkey that knows this threat, a Turkey that voices the Israeli threat, would at least not make this agreement. That is why I say that Turkey is committing suicide. Yes, it must also be said that Turkey is serving Israel.

'THERE IS A VERY CLEAR PLAN'

Evaluating Babüroğlu's statements, Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu said, 'The AKP's foreign policy line paved the way for Israel. The 100-year-old Sèvres map you just described later appears before us as the BOP. The co-chairmanship of the BOP, the promised lands are the same. The PKK terrorist organization's map and Barzani's so-called Kurdistan map, the Pope's stamp... They are all the same.'

Babüroğlu replied, 'Yes, they are the same. They are the same, they overlap. Therefore, there is a very clear plan. Everyone in Turkey, even those who are illiterate, knows this.'

'IDLIB, A LITTLE AFGHANISTAN'

Babüroğlu responded as follows to Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu's comment: 'You know, the foreign service, which is disparaged as "monşerler" (dandy diplomats) in Turkey, that is, the foreign service that this government calls "monşerler" and disparages. Valuable names were always drawing attention to what you are saying and trying to organize foreign policy accordingly.'

"And the purged generals, admirals, and other competent individuals in the military were, of course, working with them as the state. I mean, if the conspiracy cases hadn't happened, if the merit system in Turkey hadn't collapsed, the Syria policy wouldn't have been like this. The PYD and the PKK terrorist organization wouldn't be there. They wouldn't be east of the Euphrates. If we hadn't supported the opposition in Syria, there wouldn't be a 'little Afghanistan' in Idlib. Right now, Idlib is a little Afghanistan."

'NO ONE WANTS TO BE NEIGHBORS WITH A LITTLE AFGHANISTAN'

Idlib is a province in Syria that shares a 130-kilometer border with Hatay. In Idlib, the US is nurturing terrorist organizations derived from Al-Qaeda and ISIS. Those terrorist organizations are establishing a deep-rooted system there with their families and children. And that place is a little Afghanistan. No country would want to be neighbors with that little Afghanistan. Turkey, however, is a neighbor. This is also a threat.

'IT IS A GREAT THREAT TO TURKEY'

Yet, what would have been the easiest thing to do? Is there any country in the world, a member of the United Nations, that wants to be neighbors with a little Afghanistan? They wouldn't approach it; no one would want that. So, why does Turkey want it? It makes no sense. What should it do then? It should sit down at the table with Russia and Syria. 'I have left Idlib to you. I am protecting my borders, but let no threat come to me from here. If a threat comes, I will take my tanks and pull them back.' Whatever Russia and Syria do in Idlib is not our concern. But Idlib becoming a little Afghanistan and sharing a 130-kilometer border with Hatay is a great threat to Turkey.

...We are both saying, 'Israel is very problematic for us, it has its eyes on our homeland,' and at the same time, we are trying to live as neighbors with a little Afghanistan in Idlib. This makes no sense. Such logic cannot exist.

Contributing to Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu's assessment that the AKP has destroyed the state's reason, Babüroğlu continued his words as follows:

'IF IT WERE JUST ABOUT GEOGRAPHY, TURKEY WOULD ALSO BE THE MIDDLE EAST'

"There are two types of countries in the world. For instance, Ibn Khaldun says, 'Geography is destiny.' He says it, and some are voicing it right now. I absolutely do not agree with this. I say that if geography were destiny, North Korea and South Korea would be in the same geography, speak the same language, and share the same culture. But while North Korea experiences poverty and oppression, South Korea experiences prosperity. Same geography, same climate, same language, same culture. Therefore, geography is not destiny. It is a tremendous example for Turkey."

If geography were destiny, Turkey would also be the Middle East. But it didn't happen. The Republic of Turkey was founded in 1923, and it experienced the peak of its enlightenment in 1938. During the era of the great Atatürk, would Turkey have become a country in 2024 that is experiencing economic collapse, hosting the world's largest community of refugees and migrants, and failing to ensure justice and security? Therefore, a state has two fundamental duties that are indispensable: while it has many normal duties, the first is justice, and the second is security.

'SYRIANS HAVE GONE MISSING!' 

You ask citizens about justice, and in the research conducted, they say: '74% say there is no justice' in Turkey. They say there is no justice. Yes. What is the trust in the judiciary? 14%. A disaster! These are according to research. Well, what about security? You look, some number of thousands of Syrians... 700 thousand, 350 thousand... Regardless, Syrians have gone missing. My brother, how did you lose them? Why did you lose 700 thousand, 350 thousand people?

IS THIS SECURITY?

Kilis, Gaziantep, Hatay... Let's leave that aside, our territorial waters in Bodrum are violating our sovereignty. That's not enough, it violates it a second time in Datça. That's not enough, they are landing on shore. This is the time the occupation army, the Greek army supported by the British, landed on land for the second time after May 15, 1919. I mean, how many years have passed since September 9, 1922? It has landed here after approximately 100 years, 102 years. Is this security? Is this what you call security?

Therefore, justice and security... Now you ask women, women living in Turkey. 75-76% say, 'I do not feel safe.' Now, if 74% say there is no justice and 75% of women say I do not feel safe, it means that society cannot provide justice and security. Then what were the two indispensable duties of the state? This. Well, the state cannot provide them. Was it established not to provide justice and security?

'THE OPPOSITION IS PASSIVE'

Babüroğlu also commented on the opposition's stance regarding foreign policy as follows:

"I find the opposition very passive. They are unable to capitalize on the political power making so many strategic mistakes. They cannot articulate it in a way the public can understand. I go to conferences. I am from Hatay. I go to Hatay, I go to Gaziantep, I give lectures in various places like Konya, Kayseri, Bursa, and İzmir. Because I approach my lectures within the framework of Atatürk and the republic, almost everyone from across the political spectrum attends. They all share the same thought: The opposition is passive. The opposition is not active. The opposition must explain those strategic mistakes I voice in a clear, step-by-step manner that the public can understand."

In Gaziantep, the visa exemption for those under 15 and over 50 recognized from Iraq... Why? The opposition should ask this. They should explain it with documents. We cannot see the documents. Why are there so many asylum seekers in the geography of the Promised Lands and the Greater Middle East Project? The opposition should explain this.

IMPORTATION OF ASYLUM SEEKERS

To Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu, who noted that a population export is being made to Turkey, Babüroğlu responded as follows:

Yes, it is being imported. There is no country in the world that has improved its economy with migrants and asylum seekers. But there are many countries that have collapsed due to migrants and asylum seekers. The first is Pakistan. Pakistan accepted 4.5 million Afghans in 1980. Zia-ul-Haq was in power then. He was also a friend of General Kenan Evren. Zia-ul-Haq was someone with a Muslim Brotherhood mentality. He wanted to bring Afghanistan under his influence, accepted 4.5 million Afghans, and years later, Pakistan never saw the light of day again.

THE PAKISTAN EXAMPLE

What was Pakistan? It was a country that competed with India and was one of the nine countries in the world possessing nuclear weapons. That Pakistan has now become a country that tourists are afraid to visit. Its army weakened, and sects and religious communities came to dominate the military. Yes, you know that Benazir Bhutto, known as the Daughter of the East, was assassinated and her father was executed. In the book she wrote titled 'Daughter of the East,' she explains in detail how Pakistan reached these processes.

In a book she wrote in 2007, Benazir Bhutto says: "Pakistan had no drug trafficking, human smuggling, gangs, or terrorism. After accepting 4.5 million Afghan asylum seekers, all of these things happened to us." 

The refugee expert Siddiqui there says—I read his book—according to the documents, he says: "We realized 30 years later that the asylum seekers and migrants coming from Afghanistan were forming gangs, terrorist organizations, and drug mafias, and that they were threatening Pakistan's security. But it was too late." And Pakistan never saw a peaceful day again.

WHEN WE WENT TO BEIRUT, WE WOULD SAY 'WE ARE GOING TO PARIS'

Second example: After the 1967-1973 Arab-Israeli War—I am from Hatay, I went to Lebanon many times, I know it. Then, starting from 1976, Palestinian asylum began in Lebanon, with a large number of Palestinian refugees. Because after the 1967-1973 Arab-Israeli War, Palestine shrank, its lands decreased, and they migrated. Most of them, a significant portion, migrated to Lebanon. They entered refugee status. They migrated to Lebanon because it was a very beautiful country. Lebanon was the France of the Middle East. When we went to Beirut, we would say, "We are going to Paris." It had a Parisian atmosphere. A Monaco atmosphere, a tourism paradise... The Paris of the East, a Middle Eastern tourism paradise.

LEBANON COLLAPSED

And from 1980 onwards, the problem created by these Palestinian refugees... Even though they speak the same language, share the same culture, and speak Arabic, just think. Lebanon collapsed due to the sociological, cultural, gang-related, and terrorist problems created by the same language. And from that day to this, Lebanon has never seen a peaceful day. Lebanon collapsed. This is the situation, isn't it clear? That is why the great Atatürk. If Turkey continues like this, Turkey will also collapse.

WILL TURKEY COLLAPSE?

In response to Mollaveisoğlu's question, "Will Turkey collapse?", Babüroğlu replied "it will" and said the following:

"Make no mistake, Turkey will collapse. If precautions are not taken, Turkey will collapse. You say, 'We will integrate the refugees and migrants.' Pakistan could not integrate them, Lebanon collapsed, and Pakistan has never seen a day of peace. Let me say one more thing: Sweden accepted 114,000 Syrians, as you know. Western countries are selective. They chose and accepted them, rightfully so. 114,000 people. Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson admitted it at a press conference. She said: 'We have failed to integrate the refugees.' How many people? 114,000. Are they literate? Yes. Are they university graduates? Yes. All of them were selected. What is Sweden's per capita national income? Approximately 56,000 dollars. Yes, that is the situation."

'THE DEMOGRAPHIC STRUCTURE OF GAZİANTEP WILL CHANGE'

Sweden could not do it. How will you integrate millions of refugees? You cannot. It is obvious that you have not been able to. No one, people, women say: 'I don't feel safe 75% of the time.' Antakya Park used to be famous. All the girls and women would walk there in the evenings, everyone would exercise and go for walks. Now, no one goes there in the evening. That place has also become a no-go zone. Including Gaziantep...

Gaziantep's non-governmental organizations... 41 NGOs came together and prepared a report titled 'Syrians in Gaziantep.' The conclusion is this: 10 years from now, the demographic structure of Gaziantep will change, and no one is happy. The result is this: A Syrian visits health institutions 8 times more often than a Turkish citizen. Medicine is free, there is no co-payment. Doctor services are free.

Another report says: Syrians have become lawyers registered with the bar association and are opening offices, but they do not know Turkish. This is in the report; this is an official report. The government also has this report in front of them. They are doing nothing. Why?

'COOPERATION MUST BE ESTABLISHED WITH THE DAMASCUS ADMINISTRATION IMMEDIATELY'

I am saying that Turkey is committing suicide. Despite these reports, despite this 'promised land,' the Greater Middle East Project, and the PKK terrorist organization project, if Turkey had acted in line with its national security and national interests, I would first establish cooperation with the Damascus administration. Immediately. Secondly, after establishing it, I would make an agreement regarding the Syrian refugees and migrants and send them all back. Thirdly, there is no such thing in world history. Mr. Davutoğlu made an agreement with the European Union. I ask Mr. Davutoğlu here as well: Why did you make this readmission agreement with the European Union? You did it in 2013 while you were Minister of Foreign Affairs. Show me one word that serves national interest, serves national security, and is not contrary to this agreement.

'TURKEY IS A TRANSIT ROUTE'

People are fleeing Iran and coming to Turkey. They are fleeing Iraq and coming to Turkey. Or they are fleeing Pakistan, or Bangladesh, or Afghanistan, or Ethiopia, and coming to Turkey. They want to go from Afghanistan to Denmark. Turkey is a transit route. We say, 'You cannot go!' Why? They say, 'But my aunt is there, in Sweden, in Denmark.' You cannot go; we have signed a readmission agreement with the European Union. You cannot go. They cross the border and stay. They say, 'But I want to go.' We say, 'You cannot go.'

WOULD ANYONE WANT TO LIVE IN TURKEY UNDER THESE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS?

Let them go. I am serious; if the Turkish political leadership wants to earn some merit, it should let anyone who wants to go to Europe leave. It should cancel the readmission agreement. At the very least, those who go to Sweden, Luxembourg, Denmark, or Switzerland would say, 'God bless Turkey, I am living more comfortably now.' Honestly, would anyone want to live in Turkey under these economic conditions? Nobody wants to stay anyway. So, Erdoğan has an asylum seeker card against Europe. He is playing with that card, but is this card a threat to Israel? Is it a threat to the US? Shall I tell you? If it remains this way, in 10-15 years, the countries in NATO and the Western alliance will classify Turkey as a 'risky country'.

'THEY CANNOT EXPEL TURKEY FROM NATO'

Babüroğlu commented on Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu's question regarding whether Turkey could be expelled from NATO with the following remarks:

'They will classify it as a risky country. They cannot expel it from NATO because, according to NATO's North Atlantic Treaty, you cannot expel a member country. But they will classify it as a risky country. They will not include you in any projects. They will not keep important personnel at NATO headquarters. They will not appoint Turkey to those positions. You will enter the 'risky country' status. They will not even let you into important meetings.'

RISKY COUNTRY: TURKEY

The European Union has already placed Turkey in the risky country category. Why? You look at visa applications, and you cannot get any visa. For example, another country makes the same application. If a citizen of Montenegro applies, they get it immediately, but a citizen of the Republic of Turkey cannot. It wasn't like this before. There is a similar situation with asylum applications. After Syria and Afghanistan, Turkey is the third country in terms of asylum applications. Turkish citizens also want to leave. This is an indicator of the situation Turkey has reached.

BRAIN DRAIN

Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu also asked Babüroğlu about the issue of "brain drain," which has been back on the agenda for some time, posing the question: "There is also a brain drain from Turkey. What does brain drain mean?" Babüroğlu gave the following response:

"Yes, brain drain is an indicator of a loss of confidence in a country. While refugees and migrants have a negative impact on the country, they are destroying the dreams of the youth. Your greatest resource, your brain power, is seeking asylum. We rank third after Syria and Afghanistan. This is a major problem. Which country accepts brain drain?

But you are accepting illiterate people from Iraq under the age of 15 and over the age of 50. Turkey has reached such a point with this policy... That is why I say that Turkey is committing suicide. Turkey is also very high, at the top, in the global crime index. Mafia, drug trafficking, human smuggling... Cocaine used to not come to Turkey, but now Turkey has become a cocaine trade hub. Turkey is no longer just a transit route for cocaine; it has become a trade zone."

JUSTICE INDEX

Veteran journalist Tuncay Mollaveisoğlu also asked Babüroğlu about the climate of justice in Turkey. 

Babüroğlu continued his remarks with the following expressions:

"Yes, Turkey is also very far behind in the justice index. We are behind Russia, Belarus, and many other countries. My dear colleague, the picture of Turkey is clear. You said a country is committing suicide... Yes, does a country commit suicide?" 

'ATATÜRK KNEW THE VALUE OF THIS HOMELAND'

If Turkey does not abandon this path and follow the principles pursued by the great Atatürk in foreign policy, it will not be able to find its way. But if it returns to Atatürk's principles, Turkey will find its way in five years. What are these principles? During the Atatürk era, the Settlement Law was enacted in 1934. According to this law, the foreign population within any provincial border could not exceed 10%. Foreigners could not form cooperatives, establish unions, reside wherever they wanted, or create neighborhoods. The great Atatürk implemented these policies because he knew the value of this homeland and protected it like the apple of his eye.

Now, when did this settlement policy change? In 2006. Why did it change? The opposition is obliged to ask this. Why did it change, why did we change it? We have brought trouble upon ourselves.

'ISRAEL COULD USE REFUGEES AND MIGRANTS'

Babüroğlu responded to the question, "Will Israel attack Turkey? This is always being discussed. To give a clear answer, what would you say?" as follows:

"Israel will not conduct a ground operation against Turkey. There will be no attack by land. Not by air. Not by sea. But Israel, the US, or any country hostile to Turkey does not need to attack Turkey! The number of refugees and migrants is sufficient. They can use them. When the demographic structure changes, they can easily do it through agents and useful elements inside. Secondly, there is the PKK/PYD in the region occupied by the US in Syria, which has reached 70,000-80,000 armed terrorists. They are there too. Israel uses them as proxies. Thirdly, there are ISIS and Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorist organizations in Idlib, located 130 kilometers from the Hatay border. Israel and the US use them."

'THEY COULD DESTABILIZE TURKEY THROUGH PROXY WARS'

Through proxy wars, they could turn Turkey into a dark place, a country that never sees the light of day, using proxies. Israel does not need to attack Turkey directly.

Babüroğlu also made striking comments regarding the Kürecik Radar Station, which is located in Turkey and has frequently come to the agenda following Israeli attacks.

Dr. Babüroğlu's comments are as follows:

Yes, they can destabilize Turkey through proxy wars. If there is intelligence of an attack against Turkey and this is being voiced, then we must ask: Why do bases or facilities that could be utilized by a country that poses a threat to another country exist in that country? Why don't we remove them? For example, the Kürecik Radar...

KÜRECİK BASE

In 5,000 years of recorded war history, there is no such absurdity. If it is a threat to a country, why do facilities that could benefit from that threat remain in that country?

There is no such thing in 5,000 years of recorded war history. I say, 'I am Country A, and Country B will be a threat to me,' yet I host a base or a radar system in my own country that Country B could utilize in any situation. What does this mean? If the US or Israel is a threat to me, why does the Kürecik Radar remain in Turkey? The US uses Kürecik to transmit information to Israel via an early warning system whenever there is any threat directed at Israel. So, why am I keeping that radar here? If this absurdity continues, then this claim of a threat is a lie.

Secondly, if we are talking about the promised lands and saying that Israel has its eyes on the south of Turkey, why am I settling refugees and migrants there in high numbers? If there is a threat, I would establish cooperation with the Damascus administration, cooperate with Syria, and prevent Israel from moving north through Syria. It is that simple.

IF THERE IS A THREAT, I WOULD CUT SUPPORT TO KÜRECİK

If the threat is real, I would cut support for the Kürecik Radar. Otherwise, it is a lie. But if the threat is real, then the necessary steps are clear: I would cooperate with the Damascus administration, stop supporting the opposition, and prevent Israel's advance to the north by collaborating with Syria. This is a very clear and precise strategy.

'THE SO-CALLED KURDISTAN PROJECT CONTINUES'

Babüroğlu responded to Mollaveisoğlu's final question, "Is there a possibility that Israel will spread the war to the region?" with the following words:

"Yes, the comprehensive attack carried out by Hamas on October 7, 2023, is the Middle East's 9/11. The Middle East will be completely reshaped. Turkey is a target in this process. There is no need for Israel, the US, or the UK to attack Turkey directly. They will do their best to stir up and destabilize Turkey through proxy wars, refugees, migrants, Al-Qaeda, ISIS-affiliated terrorist organizations, and radical terrorist groups in Idlib. Furthermore, the 'so-called Kurdistan' project continues with pieces being formed in the north with the Iraqi Kurdistan Regional Government and in northern Syria. Finally, only Iran and Turkey remain. It is Iran's turn, and then Turkey's."

'IT WILL BE TURKEY'S TURN'

The project they call the so-called Greater Kurdistan is actually the Greater Israel project. Israel is now occupying southern Lebanon. Next, it will occupy southern Syria. Afterward, they will turn to Iran. As of 2025, air and naval operations against Iran will begin. But there will be no ground operation. They will strike nuclear facilities, economic infrastructure, ammunition depots, and command-and-control systems in Iran. Iran will be weakened through proxies, just like Syria. If Turkey continues this policy, it will be Turkey's turn."