Journalist Barış Pehlivan is the first guest on 'Filtresiz' with Özge Uzun: 'It seems my fight will continue even if the government changes'

The first guest of the program "Filtresiz" with Özge Uzun was journalist Barış Pehlivan. Reminding viewers of the colorful socks Pehlivan wears during broadcasts, Uzun asked,

"Are you a sock person?" Pehlivan responded as follows: 'I AM A SOCK MAN' "Of course, I cannot hold a candle to Seda Sayan. You may like her or not, I don't know, but I am a sock man. The essence of the matter is actually this: 2-3 years ago, on dear Gökmen Karadağ's program, I had worn a pair of colorful socks that day. My intention that day was just to wear a pair of colorful socks; it was red, if I remember correctly. At that moment, some of our viewers started saying things, sending messages via social media privately, like, 'You are discussing serious topics, what is this sock, Barış? Does it suit you at all? You are ruining the seriousness, take those socks off.' Honestly, it was a reaction I didn't expect because what does that have to do with anything now? Is there a change in what I am saying? Do they see any shift in my presentation or my ideas? Also, I know our audience to be more open-minded, so I was frankly bothered by this."

The first guest of the program "Filtresiz" with Özge Uzun was journalist Barış Pehlivan.

Reminding viewers of the colorful socks Pehlivan wears during broadcasts, Uzun asked, "Are you a sock person?" Pehlivan responded as follows: 'I AM A SOCK MAN' "Of course, I cannot hold a candle to Seda Sayan. You may like her or not, I don't know, but I am a sock man. The essence of the matter is actually this: 2-3 years ago, on dear Gökmen Karadağ's program, I had worn a pair of colorful socks that day. My intention that day was just to wear a pair of colorful socks; it was red, if I remember correctly. At that moment, some of our viewers started saying things, sending messages via social media privately, like, 'You are discussing serious topics, what is this sock, Barış? Does it suit you at all? You are ruining the seriousness, take those socks off.' Honestly, it was a reaction I didn't expect because what does that have to do with anything now? Is there a change in what I am saying? Do they see any shift in my presentation or my ideas? Also, I know our audience to be more open-minded, so I was frankly bothered by this." 

I have a stubborn streak, so I said, 'These things need to be overcome somehow.' Normally, I would have worn black socks again the following week. Since I said that, I felt it had to be overcome. I started wearing colorful socks every week in a way I wouldn't normally do, frankly, a bit to get the audience used to it. Later, those who criticized me and made comments started sending socks to the channel, sending colorful socks. 

'I WANTED TO BE A CULTURE AND ARTS REPORTER'

Drawing attention to the concept of justice, Uzun asked, 'How did you get so fixated on this issue, the issue of being just and truthful?' Pehlivan replied, 'By nature, I was always a bit of a rebel. I was always the odd one out; in school and among friends, I was always the youth who objected, asked questions, and tried to think differently. In journalism, I actually wanted to be a culture and arts reporter. My goal was to cover culture and arts, write my poems, write my novel, and so on—that kind of career.' 

'I FELL INTO A BAD PATH'

Pehlivan described his transition to political and investigative journalism as, 'I fell into a bad path.' describing it as such, he also recounted his prison experience that began in 2011. Stating, 'I entered a total of 5 times, two of which were for one day each,' Pehlivan noted that he spent 19 months in prison despite being innocent, adding, 'My obsession with the issue of justice, making the issue of justice the axis of my life in a way, is the essence of this adventure.' 

To Uzun's, 'Do you still have hope for Turkey?'question, Pehlivan replied, 'Of course. If I didn't have hope, I wouldn't practice this profession this way in these lands. I am actually someone who could easily live anywhere in the world,' and responded to Uzun's, 'Was there a point where you said, I won't let my daughter go through this anymore, or a point where you came close to that?' question as follows:

'WE HAD BEEN WRITING ABOUT THE FETULLAHISTS FOR YEARS'

'I have been a journalist for 21 years. During the time these troubles befell me, I received many formal or informal offers on this matter. I mean, from many European countries, and even from America, I received many offers like, come live here, we will give you a residence permit. Many came from both non-governmental organizations and journalism associations. I never considered them, but then, as you said, my beautiful daughter Arya was born. During that process, when we wrote the book 'Metastasis' with Barış Terkoğlu, we received very serious threats. Because after the July 15 coup attempt, everyone was talking about the Fethullahists, and we had already been writing about the Fethullahists for years. But we started writing about other sects settling into the seats they vacated, and we were subjected to their threats.' 

'AS LONG AS I DO NOT BREAK MY OWN PEN...'

You know that my daughter lives in Italy right now. Yes, I don't have any plans to move to Italy either. How should I put it, it's not a difficult thing for me. I could have lived in Italy. But I thought about it, and I felt that I would be unhappy. Because I love this journalism, doing journalism this way, and fighting this struggle on these lands, and I thought that if I were unhappy, I would offer my daughter an unhappy life as well. Honestly, I chose the longing. Also, there is the fact that I am someone who travels abroad a lot. I go to see my daughter regularly. I don't have a promise to myself that I won't live abroad from now on, but at least as long as I do this profession this way, as long as I do not break my own pen, I desire to do it on these lands. No matter how much they try to push me away.

Here are the highlights from Uzun and Pehlivan's 'Filtresiz' interview:

'THE WHOLE ISSUE IS BEING OBJECTIVE'

If the government changed tomorrow, would you continue to be an opposition figure? Because these concepts are getting very mixed up right now, aren't they? Is it about being against the government? A concept like 'opposition journalist' or 'pro-government journalist' has entered our language. Does being an opposition journalist mean being against the government, or being against everything? I mean, it doesn't matter which party is in power tomorrow; when this government changes, do you think they will still call you an opposition journalist?

"Well, I can answer this question like this. First of all, especially in the last 20-22 years, some concepts in Turkey have been eroded and used incorrectly. For example, we are always called 'impartial journalists.' That is such a ridiculous concept. I am not an impartial journalist, Özge, I have a side. I am on the side of human rights, I am on the side of animal rights, I am on the side of justice, I am on the side of equality. The whole issue is being objective. I strive to be an objective journalist. When necessary, one can also criticize the side they are on. If I start explaining the problem from here, my concern is not the face, eyes, voice, tone of voice, or, I don't know, the friends of the current president or the current government..." 

'WHEN I LOOK AT THE CURRENT OPPOSITION...'

My concern is with the system established by the current government. I am fighting against that. If this government leaves tomorrow and others establish the same system in its place, and others continue this system in some way, I will fight against them too. Given this, when I think about this question myself, sometimes when I look at the current opposition, it seems that even if the government changes, I will likely continue to fight."

'THEY ARE AWARE THAT THE WRITER FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD THEY VIEW AS AN ENEMY PROTECTS THE INTEGRITY OF HIS PEN MORE'

You are actually talking to politicians who have filed lawsuits against you to obtain certain inside information, and who, on the other hand, pressure you and your colleagues by saying, 'Go get a taste of Silivri's air.' You are getting inside information. Do they say nothing? I mean, about what is happening, like you being unjustly imprisoned or lawsuits being filed? Do they not say anything?

"They say a lot, and I am even exposed to very funny things. There are some politicians I meet with within the team currently governing Turkey. All of them oppose my imprisonment. They say things like, 'You were treated very unfairly,' and so on. You would think it didn't happen in Turkey, or that it didn't happen under their rule, but that someone else did it. It's a bit like, 'I didn't do it, Mickey did it,' frankly. But the result is, I am a journalist. I cannot act with spite. Ultimately, my concern is to accurately convey to the public what is happening in this country. And this doesn't happen from behind a desk. In any case, I try to do it by meeting with the people who are directly managing the situation." 

To be honest, if you look at my news sources and make a comparison, I have more news sources within the government wing. Because they also know this, in fact. They know, just as we do, that these lawsuits and pressures are cyclical. They know that I was imprisoned for nothing and that we are actually dealing with these lawsuits for nothing, and they are aware that the writer from the neighborhood they view as an enemy protects the integrity of his pen more than their own neighborhood. They even say this to me directly."

'I WAS OFFERED BRIBES MANY TIMES'

What comes to my mind is, for example, there are actually three professional groups. On the surface, they do the same job: diplomats, journalists, and intelligence officers. Diplomats gather information for the interests of their own countries. That is, with the demeanor of a journalist. Intelligence officers, I don't know for whose interests. Journalists gather this information to disseminate the news. They are actually doing a very intertwined job. In this work you do, has there ever been a point where you felt positioned elsewhere, used by others, or thought, 'No, there must be a line here, I shouldn't cross this line, because if I cross this line, it will cease to be journalism'? Or are you afraid of this, for example?

"There have been dozens of attempts, of course."

Because, first of all, let's acknowledge this: the vast majority of news sources want to feed the journalist in the direction of their own propaganda and their own ideas in some way. The issue here is actually related to your experience, your open-mindedness, and even how you manage your weaknesses. I mean, wasn't I offered bribes? I was offered them many times, and by very famous names, too. Or, for example, something happens where I give you a piece of news, that news is true and it gets talked about a lot. You publish it, I give you another piece of news, it gets talked about again, and you publish it again. I give you another one, it turns out to be true again, and I give you more. Automatically, a sense of trust towards me forms in you, right?

I give you the fourth story. If you publish it directly just because it came from me without questioning it much, you could actually blow up. The other three stories were given to you for the sake of this fourth one. Do you understand what I mean? It creates a sense of trust in you beforehand. If you publish it without filtering it, without using universal journalistic rules, just thinking that the news coming from him is true anyway, you actually fall into a big trap. 

WHY DID HIS HAIR TURN WHITE?

Why has your hair turned white, my friend? Is there someone making you suffer like me? Is it hereditary in the family, or is it from going in and out of prison?

"It's a bit hereditary, and a bit from stress. If we stay at this stage, it's fine, let it not turn white any further, but as you know... it's not lenses, it's not dye, it's my hair."

'THE REALITY IS NOT QUITE LIKE THAT'

I understand. Well, what about love, Barış? Love? Now, since you are my friend, dear Barış is a very charismatic, very hardworking, and very sweet man. Of course, he is single, and we are young, we are beautiful, life is not just about news. Inevitably, what I am curious about here—and I am saying this in quotes—is that, as women, we are also attracted to these profiles, these hero profiles. Look, I'm giving you a tip, we are attracted and we like it. You actually have a very difficult life. I mean, a life with difficulties that not everyone can accompany you through. Are women afraid after a certain stage? At first, things go very pleasantly, but as they say, the reality is not quite like that, my brother; on the other hand, this has another responsibility. I mean, there is a responsibility that comes with being in your life. Do you feel this? Do you think they are afraid?

"Let me say yes first, then I'll continue. Now, you said something very important. My dear, first of all, this is a very important thing, yes, exactly as you said. From the outside, there is a fighter, yes, Barış Pehlivan, who stands up to the government, writes bestseller books, is talked about, is famous on television, and so on. Now, this can look sweet from the outside. I also like such people; one can like people who fight."

But, and it will be a cliché, my reality is that I actually find people who love that Barış on the screen or who only love Barış a bit problematic. I mean, more precisely, I see that I will have problems when I bring them into my life. Because, as you said, the reality is not quite like that. I mean, Barış also has anxieties, worries, great stresses, sorrows, tears, screams, and weaknesses, just like every human being. Now, with things being this way, tomorrow I might quit this profession, I might stay away from these screens, I might not write these books in this newspaper. With things being this way, will you still be in Barış's life or not? That's actually the issue."

'I AM SOMEONE WHO IS VERY MUCH IN LOVE WITH LOVE'

Naturally, since there is a bit of skepticism and journalism in your nature, you sometimes still catch that scent due to professional deformation.

Of course. Here is the thing. Ultimately, what I mean is that we are not living an easy life. I am sure that even the viewers watching us right now, the people who have followed us for years, only know 20 or 30 percent of what we have been through. You face dozens of pressures and threats that we do not reflect to the outside world, and sometimes, let me tell you, you face dozens of pressures that you cannot even tell your friends or your closest ones. I mean, setting aside a partner or love, even your friend is not aware of why you are angry. But in the morning, for example, you might receive such a threat in your email that you cannot even share that threat. You are constantly living with things that threaten your life regarding the future. For instance, I currently have 20 investigations against me, do you understand? There are I don't know how many lawsuits. If I add them all up, I am currently being tried with 50-60 years in prison, do you understand? I am 41 years old; I have hope for what I can become, but there are also the realities of Turkey. With things as they are, all of this leaves a great residue, a reaction, and a reflection on a person. Just as you said, yes, being with me and people like me is not an easy thing; I am not an easy person, but ultimately, I am someone who is very much in love with love.

'WHAT WILL WE DO WITH THE ERDOĞAN INSIDE US'

I would also like to get your views on the recently passed animal rights law. Because we can call you a cat dad as well. It is not just about this animal rights law; for example, I traveled a lot this summer and I always go back and forth by car. I went to the Aegean and came back. Every year, while passing through those roads, you start to see best during the journey that places are disappearing, that greenery is turning into concrete, and that trees are being cut down. I think this is not just about the current administration. I think there is an insensitivity in the vast majority of our people, or would you call it the point of being unable to look after a dog, a cat, a tree, or a bird because of struggling with the economy and the fight for survival? We are in such a different state and mindset. Do you think we will be able to make peace with all of this, and do you see that hope in the coming times?

"The thing is, this government will go one day. It might not go in today's election, but it will go in the next one. These are not very important things. The government changes, the president changes, the members of parliament change, but do you know what I am most concerned about? I say this because you mentioned hope: what will we do with the Recep Tayyip Erdoğan inside us, with the AKP supporters inside us? I mean, what will we do with that government that has settled inside us?" 

'PSYCHIATRISTS HAVE A VERY SERIOUS TASK AHEAD'

We have been living with this government for 22 years. From the youngest to the oldest among us, the codes of this government have entered us a little, do you understand? Children born during this government's term are now 20 years old. The conspiracies, lies, slanders, blackmail, and cunning schemes we saw during this government's term have settled into some of our codes, do you understand? If the government changes, how will we cleanse ourselves of that filth? I am most concerned about this. Therefore, in my opinion, a very, very serious task falls upon sociologists, psychologists, and even psychiatrists in Turkey. 

'WE HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE WE TALK ABOUT ERDOĞAN AT RAKI TABLES'

Opposition party leaders who resemble those they criticize have begun to emerge. People who say, 'The more I shout, the more I scold, the more I slam my fist on the table, the more powerful, the stronger, and the more applause I get,' have started to multiply. Yet, what I miss—and this might sound very romantic—is that in my early university years, in the early 2000s, I used to talk about Cemal Süreyya, Edip Cansever, Turgut Uyar, Nilgün Marmara, and their friends in conversations with my peers. Now, we have reached a point where we talk about Recep Tayyip Erdoğan at raki tables. This is not just a political issue for a country; it is not something related to Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's identity, but he shouldn't be at the center of our lives this much. We have constantly clogged the main arteries that nourish us, and I think we are left very orphaned because of this. 

ARTICLE 5

As you said, I have a cat, Roza, a ginger tabby. I wrote about this in Cumhuriyet. I have been thinking for days, wondering about this famous Article 5, which refers to dogs showing negative behavior. It can be interpreted in any way, it can be used in any way; I wonder, will only conscientious people mourn the dogs that are to be killed, the animals that are to be killed? I mean, will other animals also mourn those killed animals? 

According to anthropologists, yes, yes—when you kill a dog, other dogs that knew that dog, and even other living creatures, will enter a state of mourning. Again, according to anthropologists, they will stop eating. Some will become aggressive, some will become restless, some will commit suicide, do you know that?

'WHOSE POCKETS WILL BE FILLED THROUGH ANIMAL MASSACRE?'

Now, with things as they are, will the animals experiencing that grief also become animals that fall under the scope of Article 5, showing negative behavior? I mean, will mourning also be considered a reason for a massacre? The people who passed this law are so far removed from science, so far removed from dealing with living things, do you understand? They haven't even examined these things. I wrote about it in Cumhuriyet. There is a dog named Hachiko in Japan; he forms a bond with a professor. He takes him to the train station every day, then returns home, and when the professor is found dead at the university one day, Hachiko goes to the train station where they always met for 10 years, waiting for him. In the end, he also loses his life at that train station. There is a statue of him there in Japan now. So, the Japanese have gone and erected a statue based on the human-animal relationship. We are still asking what anthropologists say, what these animals feel—is the whole issue just that they don't know Turkish, don't know English, can't speak in a language we can understand? It says they mourn, they mourn, and even that mourning could lead to their slaughter. And there is a point I still haven't fully grasped. What is this rush? What is this? I cannot help but ask, whose rent will really be provided by this? Whose pockets will be filled through this animal massacre?

'WE EVEN SAW THIS DURING THE EARTHQUAKE'

No, I didn't understand that either when you said it just now. How can animal slaughter and lining one's pockets go hand in hand?

"There could be so many things. It could be through transportation, through medicine, through the doctor chosen; I mean, it could be through the syringe for that vaccine, it could be through anything. We have always seen this. We even saw it during the earthquake. They didn't even distribute the money they collected after the July 15 coup attempt properly. With things as they are, how can I not be suspicious? Because what they have done is a guarantee of what they will do."

'THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HOPELESS EITHER'

One last question. Now I want you to imagine something. Close your eyes. God forbid it doesn't happen again, but you've gone to prison. You entered the ward. Normally you stay alone, but the ward isn't for one person. There is a young man in the ward. 'May God set you free, brother,' he says. You looked at him and asked, 'At this young age, why are you here?' The young man said: 'I wrote "Freedom for Barış Pehlivan" on the wall. I got 6 months. I don't even know who you are, brother, but here we are.' What would you feel?

"That's a very good question. I would probably introduce myself first. Because I have encountered very similar stories; I mean, I have met people who got into trouble because they were truly defending our rights inside, without even knowing you or me. But this is also a bit like this: I am paying these prices for millions of people I don't even know. I am growing up longing for my own child so that the children of those millions can live in a better, more peaceful, and brighter country. Now, this is my job. I learned this job this way. The moment I can't do this job this way, I won't sell or rent out my pen; I will break that pen myself. But I know this: prison is a concept that is feared a lot, it's not a good place, and I'm not stupid enough to romanticize prison, but people fear what they don't know." 

Once you know that prison, once that wall of fear is broken, you face it with courage. That's why, for example, they can't scare me by putting me in prison. On the contrary, I get stronger every time I come out of prison. Because I say, if they took 6 months from my life, I will add 12 months to my life. If they took 1 year from me, I will add 2 years. I've always done that until today, and I will continue to do so. But let no one have any doubt: I and dozens of colleagues like me, and you as well, if you are still stubbornly trying to do this profession, rest assured—and let those watching us rest assured—it is because we still believe in a fair, hopeful, and modern future, and because we love this country very much. We continue because we protect this hope. They have no right to be hopeless either."

'THOSE BEAUTIFUL DAYS WILL RETURN'

While we do this crazy work, while we do these crazy things, they also need to lend a hand. I mean, this doesn't work just by liking on social media or feeling sad, my friend. These journalists are paying these prices for you and your loved ones; if they can endure these difficulties, you might not see the strength in yourself to endure them, but at least watch the broadcasts of those journalists, read their books, share their articles. That is how this struggle can grow, and they should all organize. This is what organizing is. Organize and multiply this solidarity. Rest assured, those beautiful days will come."

News Source: 12punto