TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan: 'Someone who defines themselves as a Kemalist can certainly be a good socialist'

Report: Mustafa BÜYÜKSİPAHİ- 12punto

Last Sunday, Ankara hosted an event that will be talked about in the Turkish left for a long time. The meeting organized by the Communist Party of Turkey (TKP) under the title "Like Ships Facing the Waves, the TKP Challenges" took place in the capital's largest congress hall. In the event, where attendance was far above expectations, the 3,000-person hall was completely filled, while hundreds of citizens had to follow the speeches from outside. The intense interest of the youth and the profile of Republicans, academics, and journalists in the hall were particularly noteworthy.

The most striking moments of the event occurred when TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan took the stage.

Okuyan's messages, which center on class struggle while embracing the concept of Republicanism and clearly expressing a vision of "a common Turkey where Turks and Kurds will live in peace" regarding the Kurdish issue, also resonated widely on social media. We spoke with Kemal Okuyan, who demonstrated his claim to shape the future of the left with this show of strength, about that day, his party's roadmap, and its vision for Turkey.

- Your ideas regarding the new process, which some call a 'Turkey without terror', others a 'New Solution Process', and some an 'Opening Process', are extremely clear and consistent. You express this openly. What are the thoughts and comments of Kurdish citizens regarding your ideas? How do they reflect back to you?

We must avoid sweeping expressions like Turks, Kurds, or Arabs. Just as there are exploitative Turks, there are also exploitative Kurds. There are nationalist Turks, and there are nationalist Kurds. There are also communist Kurds. And in our party, at a higher rate than is thought. We do not, of course, classify our friends according to their ethnic origins within ourselves. On the other hand, we have a duty to ensure that Kurdish laborers become an important element of the common struggle for liberation for the future of this country. As for your question... There is a large segment among our Kurdish citizens who are not at all convinced by the HDP-DEM line, who are not the least bit excited by today's "solution process," and who even feel a reaction to it. We are in contact with them, debating, and walking together with some of them.

- The attendance at the 'Like Ships Facing the Waves / TKP Challenges' event held in Ankara was very high. We witnessed that there were hundreds of people outside the hall as well. Within the scope of your work, from what perspective and based on what do people who are interested in the TKP's politics and all its general approaches turn to and take an interest in the TKP?

Compared to previous decades, there is a serious decline in people's desire to take action and participate in such events. This has economic reasons, a dimension stemming from the thinning of social life, and an aspect related to habits changed due to the pandemic. In this sense, the last event is a serious success. However, this is not just a quantitative success. At the same time, a highly lively, energetic, and hope-producing collective came together. Believe me, if it weren't for the winter conditions, the flu epidemic, and economic difficulties, more people would have come together. We do not think there is only one reason why the TKP has started to attract more attention recently. But "consistency" should be placed in the first place. The TKP is a party that takes care not to experience daily fluctuations and does not compromise its principles by risking short-term "losses." The main reason why this has been noticed recently is the collective decay in the political arena. Undoubtedly, the bold moves the TKP has made regarding Republicanism have a significant share in the increasing interest. Also, we can say that the hollow attacks coming from the right and left against the TKP have backfired for years. Let us not forget that there is a large segment tired of this political culture. After saying all this, I must remind you that this interest or the weight of the TKP in Turkish politics is absolutely insufficient. Much more is needed. We are not going to relax just because we packed a large hall in Ankara. Turkey is a big country and we still have a long way to go.

- As you also stated, a large accumulation of energy is actually being released. How has your roadmap been determined in the short and long term for the spread of socialism to the masses in Turkey, especially among the youth?

Today's system is to the detriment of everyone except a small minority. However, children and youth are under a very, very heavy attack. The distinction between studying and working youth has largely disappeared. There is a very large mass that both studies and works. A significant portion either leaves their education life early or does not care. Millions of young laborers will play important roles in the reckoning that will shape the future of Turkey. To say that this role will automatically be "positive" is laziness, and even more so, youth fetishism. Channels that will feed dreams of getting rich without working are being put in front of people who have been deprived of a future, isolated, and left alone with very heavy exploitation conditions at an early age. Phenomena such as gambling, gang formation, drugs, and social media influencer culture are corrosive. However, if the alternative to this decay is taking refuge in the family, shutting oneself at home, not wanting to work, losing the joy of life, and constantly thinking about suicide, it is impossible for the youth to stand up. Therefore, one cannot get anywhere with the "rejuvenation" literature that bourgeois politics has emptied of content today. Today, I will say it with a very hackneyed expression, what will protect the youth from bad habits, what will also connect them to life, is this: The struggle for a better world. In this respect, the TKP is not just any school, it is a healing-developing school.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin. A certain age group alone cannot determine the future of Turkey. The energy that young laborers will create is extremely important, but the weight of other age groups who hold on to life and do not want to tolerate this damn order any longer is also extremely important in terms of our increasingly "aging" society. To give a clear example, no struggle that does not include the increasingly rising reaction of today's 16-17 million retirees has a chance of success. Capitalism hates "the elderly." Socialism, on the other hand, provides the most opportunities for children and the elderly. These are the fragile age groups.

- The 'Like Ships Facing the Waves / TKP Challenges' event held in Ankara gave birth to great hope. We see that it is extremely possible to explain socialism to large masses with consistent work and correct methods. In your opinion, what does the interest and excitement shown in this event held in Ankara indicate?

As I emphasized before, we have not yet reached large masses. We have opened the way to reach them, but we are at the beginning of this road. On the other hand, the TKP gives excitement and confidence to the segments it touches. I think that the anti-communism, in which massive investments are made by the US in Turkey, is collapsing due to our efforts and the miserable situation capitalism has entered.

- You emphasize the accumulations and values of the Republic every time. How does the perspective that clearly defines itself as Republican interpret the TKP's approach and your statements?

Republicans are a very broad segment. We are not talking about a homogeneous group. One reason why the TKP's approach to the founding of the Republic, what happened to our country afterwards, and today's polarization has attracted attention recently is that it has been realized, albeit late, by a wider segment that the holding-cult order in Turkey did not fall from the sky. Things have reached such a point that it has become impossible to defend the idea of the Republic without questioning the system. Yes, we know that there is still a very strong pro-NATO, pro-TÜSİAD segment among those who define themselves as Republicans. However, they have lost ground, and furthermore, their credibility is rapidly decreasing. In addition, there has been a serious increase in the number of Revolutionary Kemalist centers recently, and they are becoming widespread, especially among the youth. Our party's relationship with these circles is both constructive and sincere. A wider segment is increasingly realizing that the TKP's discourse is not for tactical purposes. We have no effort to become the same as them; on the contrary, it is also very valuable to move forward in different lanes that give energy to each other.

- Where do you stand between ideological clarity and sharpness and massiveness?

Without ideological clarity, you only become a crowd. Massiveness requires consistency of direction. Especially in today's world, massiveness is a "big" word. For example, parties like the AKP and CHP are not mass parties. The social fabric of these parties can be described by a "broad voter base." For us, the main goal right now is to spread and socialize while maintaining our political and organizational principles and character. Massiveness will be the result of this. Therefore, instead of pitting massiveness and a principled stance against each other, we evaluate them as complementary phenomena.

- It is interesting that after the event held with high participation in Ankara, we notice that not only some individuals but also institutions could not/did not ignore this event of the TKP. What would be your comment even on this?

We have always said this: They do not want to put the TKP in the frame. But you reach such a point that you are inevitably included in the photo frame. In this sense, the TKP has become a reality of Turkish politics. No one can come out and call the TKP marginal. They cannot, despite the vote rates in the last elections. Also, let's not forget this: There are many who want to be hostile to the TKP, but the TKP is one of the parties with the most friends. Our friends are at least as valuable to the TKP as our members.

- Is there participation in the TKP from conservative segments, what is the level of interest?

We are at the anniversary of February 6. The interest of conservative segments in our party was a process that accelerated after this painful destruction. It continues. And it will continue. You cannot be ambitious in Turkey without touching conservative laborers and drawing them into the class struggle.

- There is a topic that has been discussed a lot recently. We know that the number of secular and nationalist youth is increasing. Do you see a trend towards the TKP in this segment? In your opinion, what are the prominent reasons for the existing trends?

The large youth segment coded as "secular and nationalist" does not yet have a filtered and settled ideological direction. They are in a search and have shown a strong reaction to the political and economic reality of today's Turkey. The TKP is a party discussed within this segment and yes, there is participation in our party from these segments. However, we always emphasize that Turkey is a very big country and the TKP is making efforts to make more comprehensive interventions. Small successes are not successes for us. Because you will not have achieved results.

- How do you view the meeting of citizens who define themselves first and foremost as 'Atatürkist' or 'Kemalist' with a socialist identity, and the increase in the number of Atatürkist socialists? In your opinion, can a good Atatürkist also be a good socialist at the same time?

Undoubtedly, this is a good thing. The character of the TKP is clear. The TKP is not a Kemalist party. However, both its evaluations regarding Mustafa Kemal as a historical revolutionary actor and its approach to Kemalism, which is used by loading very different meanings onto it, are clear and distinct. We have made this issue a subject of a historically sound evaluation. The struggle for socialism centers on "class contradictions." There cannot be a model or type of socialism that pushes the class issue to the background or makes it insignificant. Being aware of this fact, someone who defines themselves as an Atatürkist can certainly be a good socialist. This is a reality of Turkey. The TKP does not do the meaningless work of fighting with this reality.

- Is socialism not being explained well enough in Turkey? What methods will you develop to explain socialism and reach larger masses in the new media age?

From the past to the present, there are two important channels in the propaganda of socialism: First, the organization of the working class, and second, intellectual dominance. The atomization of societies after the collapse of the USSR and the decline in the organization of the working class, and at the same time the darkening of societies all over the world by being pushed into an age of ignorance, created new difficulties for the propaganda of socialism. However, this time there are other possibilities. It is necessary to see new media not as an opportunity but as a field of struggle. The real opportunity is that capitalism has no credibility left and cannot produce ideology. For a revolutionary movement that does not postpone socialism, does not attach itself to bourgeois politics, and does not market the game of musical chairs for the system as "democratization," there are difficulties, but there are also new opportunities. In one respect, the field is empty!

- Would a real left-wing alliance be possible in Turkey? Ultimately, an election will be held in the country and political parties will enter this election. Therefore, a principled alliance to be made on the left could carry the TKP to the Parliament. Would you consider doing work on this?

A principled alliance on the left is not possible. For now. The TKP has no intention of wasting time either. A principled alliance cannot come out of "Let the Kurdish issue be solved first." A principled alliance cannot come out of "the union of the broadest forces against the palace." The beginning and end of these approaches are not clear. Everything whose beginning and end are not clear produces deep ties to this system. We do not want to be a partner to this lie. Well, if a real and revolutionary opportunity for cooperation arises, the TKP will not turn its back. But as I said, in the reality of today, we do not have such a hope.

- The Kurdish issue seems to have brought about a fracture on the left. Can you make a projection about the short term as to how the new picture on the left will be shaped after this fracture?

According to us, a fracture has not occurred. A state of confusion and disintegration is observed. As for us, there is nothing new. We are saying what we said yesterday. If lessons are to be learned from what has been experienced, evaluations from the edges are not enough. A substantial reckoning is required. As long as this is not done, they will continue to stand at different points within the same circle, and nothing will have changed.

News Source: 12punto