The first signing and talk event for the book "An Interview with Kemal Okuyan: What is the Need for Communism?", prepared by journalist-author Barış Terkoğlu and consisting of the responses of Communist Party of Turkey (TKP) General Secretary Kemal Okuyan, was held at the Üsküdar Bağlarbaşı Culture and Arts Center in Istanbul.
At the meeting for the book, published by Kırmızı Kedi Publishing, which was organized based on the question "What will replace this aging order?", the problems of today's world, the deadlock of capitalism, and the search for socialism were discussed.
TERKOĞLU EXPLAINS THE BIRTH OF THE BOOK: WHAT IS THE NEED?
Barış Terkoğlu, who gave the opening speech of the event, began his words by describing the emergence process of the interview book with a humorous tone. Describing his role in the preparation process in a modest way, Terkoğlu used the following expressions:
"Most of the time, I was the best supporting actor in books, or the first if I count Barış Pehlivan. But this book is a book that consists mostly of your answers; your effort is great. That's why I'll describe how I feel like this: We went to Anzer to get honey. With a student budget, the honey was very expensive, one was very cheap. I asked, 'Why is this cheap?' They said, 'This is honey from the plateau right next to the Anzer plateau, the same bees go there too.' That's why I will play the role of the plateau right next door in this book. You are the real honey, you are the real bee, you are the one who really works. The story of the book consists of Kemal's answers and my questions."
Touching on the historical source of the book's title, Terkoğlu continued his speech by stating that they were referring to a quote attributed to the former Governor of Ankara, Nevzat Tandoğan:
"Years ago, the famous governor Nevzat Tandoğan one day addressed the communists of that period and got angry, saying, 'If communism is needed in this country one day, we will bring it, what is it to you?' We decided to ask 'What is the need for communism?' by taking it from there, and the title of the book came from this."
'IMPOVERISHMENT AND THE 'RECALLED MILK' NEWS: I ASKED KEMAL THESE QUESTIONS SO WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE ORDER BEHIND IT'
Sharing the process of how the questions in the interview emerged, Terkoğlu shared a striking example. Barış Terkoğlu explained that he set out to explain the background of capital relations and impoverishment in Turkey, based on the news about milk sold in "cheap" market chains being recalled because water was added to it, with these words:
"I wrote this book for Birşah milk. A high percentage of Birşah milk was recalled because water was added to it. It is seen that 70% of people in Turkey have started to buy these cheap market brand milks recently. When asked if they are satisfied, only 20% say they are satisfied. The order of deep poverty makes people drink unwanted, low-quality products. On one side, there is the same capital organization that uses religious sensitivities, and on the other, it holds the market. While Danone, produced in the same factory, is being boycotted, Birşah Milk, which is an A101 brand, is being bought. Take Birşah milk and turn it over, look at the production addresses with Danone; the province is the same, the district is the same, the street is the same, and the number is the same. I asked Kemal these questions so that we could talk about the order behind it again."
'I ASKED SO THAT THE LEFT COULD RECONCILE WITH THE FOUNDING VALUES OF HUMANITY'
Terkoğlu expressed his approach to leftist thought with these words:
"Being a leftist doesn't mean much on its own anymore. There is a three-stage template I have built in my mind: First, if you try to distribute sharing relations to the poor, you are a leftist in my opinion. Second, we brought governments down from the sky to the earth; we are republican based on the people, we are constitutionalists, we believe in systems based on law and justice. Third, the left explains the world with reason, science, and rationality. I asked these questions so that the left could reconcile with the founding values of humanity. If being a leftist does not change the world and tries to do this through the government, it is just like yoga, like pilates. To be in life, it must change the world and try to be in power."
OKUYAN'S JOURNALISM QUESTION TO TERKOĞLU: 'AREN'T YOU BORED?'
Stating that the book is a product of joint effort, TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan made the following assessment regarding journalism and the structure of the interview book:
"The journalist is actually always the person behind the event. If they are getting in front of the event, they are not a journalist. But in these interview books of ours, this work is joint. Because I am the one answering the questions, but there is a structure there. Why were those questions formulated in one way and not another? That is a product of joint effort."
Stating that he also worked as a journalist before and knows the dynamics of the profession well, Okuyan emphasized that in their friendship with Barış Terkoğlu, they never mixed the law of journalism with the law of friendship. Touching on the practice of journalism in Turkey, Okuyan directed the following question to Terkoğlu:
"Journalism has become a very boring profession in Turkey in my opinion. I mean, it repeats itself constantly. You are constantly dealing with court files, you are dealing with judicial files, corruption files. I even told you at one point; it started to feel like I was always reading the same book with your books. Aren't you bored, Barış?"
'JOURNALISM IS THE SECOND PROFESSION OF EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD'
Responding to Kemal Okuyan's question, Barış Terkoğlu drew attention to the historical role of journalism in the transformation process of humanity and society. Defining journalism as a common tool for those who want to change the world, Terkoğlu used the following expressions:
"I think it would be correct to say that journalism is the second profession of everyone who wants to change the world. For example, when you look at it from Marxist literature, Marx was a journalist in the literature. When Lenin started his work, he started by saying, 'We need to publish a newspaper that will make our voice heard to all of Russia, that will unite all of Russia.' Mustafa Kemal started the Anadolu Agency in 1920, almost together with the War of Independence, saying, 'We need something that will address all of Anatolia.' Naturally, whether we are Nâzım Hikmet or Uğur Mumcu, whoever we are, journalism is the second profession. Because journalism is a job that gives people a tremendous opportunity to change the world, to have a say about the world, and to make people stand around that word."
'THE MISSING SIDE IS THE LACK OF STRONG SOCIAL MOVEMENTS'
Stating that journalism alone is not enough to change the world, Terkoğlu explained the underlying reason why the profession has become boring in Turkey. Saying that even if journalists reveal the biggest corruption and pollution files, there is no mass social movement to hold them accountable, Terkoğlu evaluated the situation by giving the example of journalist Murat Ağırel's work on the Melih Gökçek file:
"Why are we bored? Even if you tell the world's biggest files, reveal the biggest corruptions, tell the biggest pollutions that have happened, even if you say the world's most powerful ideas, you need a power to change them. The most important problem in Turkey today, perhaps the most important reason why journalism has become boring, is the lack of a strong social movement that will bring the issues we talk about to a conclusion.
Dear Murat wrote the Melih Gökçek file. If there were a social movement in Turkey right now that would hold the Melih Gökçek issue, that is, this possibility of corruption, this story of asset smuggling, accountable, journalism would not be such a boring job. That's why I admit that it is really boring, and I also find it a bit strange that we are constantly telling the same stories with excitement, but the missing side, in my opinion, is social movements."
'POLITICS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT WEAPON WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE WORLD'
Taking the floor after Terkoğlu's response, Okuyan stated that although he accepts that politics in the narrow sense is a tiresome field, humanity has not yet reached a level to get rid of the relationship of governing and being governed. Okuyan emphasized that politics is an inevitable tool under current conditions to change the world and society with these words:
"If we take politics in a narrow sense, it is very boring, but I never liked politics in that narrow sense anyway. I really didn't. But the claim to change the world... Actually, there is politics 24/7 in every field of life. It's not about liking or disliking that politics, we are doomed to it. We have to do it. I hope humanity will reach a maturity, a level where politics is no longer needed one day. Because politics is a bad thing. I mean, the subject of politics is bad. In the end, we are talking about something related to people governing and being governed. I am someone who is a bit fond of my freedom. Being governed is a very bad thing, and governing is also a bad thing. I mean, I don't want to govern and be governed, brother. Humanity should reach that point. But right now we have to. I mean, politics is the most important weapon we have to change the world. That's why we don't have the luxury of getting tired. But politics in the narrow sense is very tiresome, a disgraceful thing."
'COMMUNISM IS A SYSTEM THAT WILL ELIMINATE IRRATIONALITY'
Continuing his speech by answering the question on the cover of the book, TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan emphasized the irrationality of the capitalist order with a current example:
"It is necessary, friends. I would like to give a very short answer to this question. The social system in Turkey today is in a mess. Someone who had been the mayor in Ankara went to court chewing gum. At one time, he had said that a jelly bean reserve was found in Turkey. Let alone a public official committing a crime, how is it possible for someone so boorish to govern Ankara? It is possible, because there is an irrational social system, and we have reached the peak of this irrationality as a country. Communism is equality, it is enlightenment, it eliminates classes. But I feel like saying this: Communism is a social system that will eliminate this boorishness. That's why it's necessary, it's badly necessary."
'COMMUNISM IS ALSO NECESSARY SO THAT HUMANITY DOES NOT ENCOUNTER SUCH AN EXPERIENCE AGAIN'
Stating that the capitalist system has collapsed in the world, Okuyan explained why socialism is a need by giving an example of the extent of impoverishment:
"As for the deadlock of the current system, that is, the system we call capitalism; it is deadlocked, it has been deadlocked for a long time, it is rotting and collapsing. Right now, the world is definitely and absolutely calling for socialism. The Soviet Union collapsed in '91, in these 35 years, capitalism could not offer anything beautiful to humanity for a single day. The total credit card debt of our citizens in Turkey is 3.5 trillion. You take people hostage with this debt burden. But in the end, people say 'enough is enough.' People say enough is enough not by becoming conscious, but when there is no other choice left, they rebel. If this moment of social breakdown does not meet with a program with a clear direction, it can also meet with disaster. Hitler led Germany into darkness by organizing the 'enough is enough' feeling in society in a fake way. Communists were left with the obligation to save humanity from fascism. Communism is also necessary so that humanity does not encounter such a fascism experience again."
'THE LEFT HAS ABANDONED THE CLAIM OF CHANGING THE ORDER'
Stating that the main duty of the left is to change the order, Okuyan summarized the principled stance of the TKP as follows:
"The left has abandoned the claim of changing the order. As you move away from the goal of changing the order, you become a part of the existing politics. Remove the goal of changing the order or the goal of establishing a new order worthy of humanity, and nothing should remain of the TKP. We do not consider entering parliament or filling halls as a success criterion on its own. Also, there is nothing that the left in Turkey cannot share. Let more crowded corteges emerge than the Communist Party of Turkey, we see no harm in this at all. We try to stay away from polemics within the left a little bit."
'THE KURDISH QUESTION CAN BE SOLVED IN A REPUBLICAN EGALITARIAN ORDER'
Touching on the solution process discussions on the agenda, Okuyan explained the clear stance of the TKP on this issue:
"If there is a conflict somewhere, if there is an impasse somewhere, the parties sit at the table, there is no problem with this. If you build the problem from here, you make a mistake. What is important is what is being discussed at that table. The parties at the table meet in ummahism, neo-Ottomanism, and local democracy. What they call localism is a project that envisions the order of holdings spreading to every cell of the country. There is a Kurdish question in Turkey, but this question can be solved with a republican philosophy, with the unity of the working people, and in an egalitarian order. We have to object to approaches other than this."
'TKP NEVER DOES REPUBLICANISM FOR A TACTICAL REASON'
Stating that the republican and patriotic line of the TKP is not a tactical approach, Okuyan included the following expressions in his speech:
"There is nothing tactical about the TKP's patriotism and republicanism. During the AKP period, there was a historical attack on the republic in Turkey. If there is a historical attack on something and you have roots in that thing, you hold on more tightly. The TKP never, ever does republicanism for a tactical, temporary reason. This is now one of the permanent strategic principles of the Turkish revolution."
'THERE IS NOTHING LEFT IN THE FUTURE OF HUMANITY OTHER THAN SOCIALISM, OTHER THAN COMMUNISM'
Giving examples of national independence struggles in the world by touching on the historical influence of communism spanning over 170 years, Okuyan shared a memory from the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) congress and conveyed the confession of a right-wing politician: "If our flag is hanging in this hall, this is your work, you provided the independence of the country." Drawing attention to the indelible marks of communists in history, TKP General Secretary Kemal Okuyan completed his words by emphasizing that the future of humanity is also in communism:
"Remove communism, something strange remains from this 170-year history. Look at Turkish literature; there is Nâzım Hikmet, there is Orhan Kemal, there is Sabahattin Ali. Remove the communists from art and literature, a bone-dry picture remains. Wherever a country has fallen into a difficult situation, communists have fought beyond their means there. It is like this in France, like this in Bulgaria, like this in Greece... No evil has come to humanity and peoples from communists. We had mistakes that needed to be corrected, but you cannot remove communists from the history, present, and future of humanity. Communism was necessary 170 years ago, and it is necessary now. There is nothing left in the future of humanity other than socialism, other than communism."
At the event, which ended in an enthusiastic atmosphere, Okuyan and Terkoğlu signed their books for readers with a ceremony that received great interest after thanking Kırmızı Kedi Publishing and the participants.
News Source: 12punto
